Re: [ML] Hosting of gnustep.org

[H. Nikolaus Schaller]

> Am 19.01.2021 um 19:35 schrieb Ivan Vučica <ivan@vucica.net>:
> 
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 5:40 PM H. Nikolaus Schaller <hns@goldelico.com> 
> wrote:
>>> - The code is not in the main repos
>> 
>> It is on github: https://github.com/goldelico/swi
> 
> Footer links to https://projects.goldelico.com/p/swi/. This is fine,
> but the path to contributing should be clearer.

Indeed.

Alternatively if you have access to cvs.savannah.gnu.org:/web/gnustep
you should find it in /softwareindex.

By the way since you are complaining: it *is* in the GNUstep repo:

https://github.com/gnustep/gnustep.github.io/tree/master/softwareindex

Oops. Even with a security issue I do not want to explain here.
Whom should I contact to remove a file from there including the index?

Then we can also update the footer link.

Ah, one more requirement to the host: should be able to send e-mails.

> 
>>> - I don't have admin privileges to touch the database
>>> - Even as a regular user I don't have any sort of login credentials.
>> 
>> What do you need them for? The workflow is based on the assumption
>> that everybody can openly contribute and reviewers/moderators delete
>> spam.
> 
> Counterpoint: what's wrong with open reviews, where everyone can see
> the pull request adding a new file,

http://www.gnustep.org/softwareindex/stats.php

shows pending change requests for everybody even if spam. At the moment
there aren't any.

The reason that there are moderators/reviewers is that all such systems
invite spam robots to inject nonsense-content. It can also happen with
github (but may be rare because AFAIR you need to be logged in and identity
verified to post any comment).

> and any core contributor to the
> project can approve/disapprove without going through a bespoke admin
> UI?

Well, what is the difference in going to the github pull request list
and approve/disapprove to going to the pending changes and approve/disapprove.

The only difference is how it is presented and activated.

And, that there are two logins. I have no idea if that can be harmonized.

> Would it be worse if every contributor could copy the entire
> *dataset* of gs.org SWI at any time (something we were not doing with
> code on gna.org)?

In fact it seems that the softwareindex was so far ahead in time when
it was introduced that it is difficult to see that it has all the 
modern mechanisms we find (hidden behind different user interfaces)
nowadays in many collaboration tools.

> 
>> What is the benefit of cloning it?
> 
> Archival. Survivability. See: gna.org shutdown. We'd never have moved
> to Git if disaster didn't force *something* to happen. A move to Git
> has also always meant we can drop Github if we choose to.
> 
>>> They're less and less of a standard these days.
>> 
>> This is not my impression. But I may be biased.
> 
> Anecdotally: of people around me, I know only one person still happily
> working on backend development in PHP.
> 
> Less anecdotally: even the largest formerly-PHP service in the world
> has opted to write their own dialect, compiler and finally a bytecode
> virtual machine.

Well, my dream is to write WebApps in Obj-C using OpenSTEP classes.
I.e. button = [[NSButton alloc] initWithTitle:@"press here"]; and have
the GUI class NSButton emit the necessary HTML+CSS+JS to present it to
the user so that he can press the button in his browser. So use the MVC
model in the App completely hiding that the user-interaction goes through
https (on a very abstract level there is no big difference between http
and X11 protocols connecting a server over the network with a display
and a keyboard).

This could be achieved by a compiler from Obj-C to PHP or directly to
PHP byte-code...

I think I discussed that a while ago but there seems to be no support
for this idea.

> Additionally, widest deployed Fediverse services are
> written in Ruby and Elixir respectively.

Generally this is a Not Invented Here phenomenon. And since they do
not have a need to cooperate any more they compete. By inventing new
languages and making developers depend on them. If they would use
all the same language, developer would go away quicker. Standard
process in economics...