Re: [DotGNU]Microsoft & Mono

[Jeremy Petzold]

cool, I hope its faster than Dial-up.

On Wed, 18 July 2001, David Sugar wrote:

> 
> I am still here.  I can get net access from the hotel...
> 
> David
> 
> Jeremy Petzold wrote:
> 
> > Hey David, How was the trip? :)
> > 
> > 
> > David Sugar wrote:
> > 
> >> It is not nessisarly a bad thing to re-state, even the so called 
> >> obvious. Yes, this is a good way of expressing the key part of what we 
> >> wish to do in regards to authentication and data privacy.
> >> 
> >> David
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Jeremy Petzold wrote:
> >> 
> >>> yes, and I am sure this is the general feeling on the project, but I 
> >>> have not seen it said anywhere, if we can make it so idividuals can 
> >>> create their own Databanks on a home server/leased space, then that 
> >>> will give us the most power over .NET.
> >>> 
> >>> remember, the bad thing about passport is that the Authorization and 
> >>> Data are bundled, one will not function without the other. but, if we 
> >>> make it where the Data is stored on any server, even one the local 15 
> >>> year old can set up for his neibors, then have a seperate Auth server 
> >>> sytem that would be managed perhaps by some sort of govening body 
> >>> sort of like the W3C is to the web, then people would have total 
> >>> control over their information, and all they would need to do is to 
> >>> register with the auth server in their area to make thier Databank 
> >>> valid for use.
> >>> 
> >>> I know that this has been the general feeling from Day one, but I 
> >>> just felt that no one had actualy said it in such totality that one 
> >>> could see the big picture of how the system is to work.
> >>> 
> >>> so, sorry if this is one of those Duh-no-sh*t-stupid sort of thing, 
> >>> but I felt the need to say it.
> >>> 
> >>> am I wrong in one of these areas?
> >>> On Tue, 17 July 2001, Barry Fitzgerald wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> Yes, well...
> >>>> 
> >>>> We're countering with control and flexibility.  Surely, many users will
> >>>> gravitate towards passport, but we may be able to leverage some through
> >>>> other areas.  I suspect that the ISP's will be our allies in this
> >>>> battle.  And as far as provided services, that's obviously something
> >>>> that can't be answered now since the .Net services themselves have not
> >>>> been fully defined.  Suffice it to say that we will have different
> >>>> concepts at work.  Concepts which we feel are superior.
> >>>> 
> >>>>     -Barry
> >>>> 
> >>>> Kent Nguyen wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>>> On Tuesday 17 July 2001 07:05, Barry Fitzgerald wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>> Kent Nguyen wrote:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Even if 63% of all of the web servers out there are apache, these
> >>>>>>>> servers - using .Net compatible services - could further leverage
> >>>>>>>> Microsoft's position on the desktop by running Microsoft centric
> >>>>>>>> architectures over Free Software.  This it why dotGnu is the real
> >>>>>>>> danger to Microsoft.  Mono is a necessary component to some extent.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> What about Microsoft passport customer based?  Doesn't that attract
> >>>>>>> software developer to buy a specialize "security pack" to 
> >>>>>>> interoperate
> >>>>>>> with passport?
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> --kent
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Well, I think it's obvious that user marketshare is always an 
> >>>>>> issue when
> >>>>>> considering what platform some developers will develop for - as 
> >>>>>> does an
> >>>>>> already existing userbase.  These are essentially one and the same.
> >>>>>> However, I fail to see your point here.  Yes, their marketshare is a
> >>>>>> factor.  So...???
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Think about it this way.  Let's say a user have a Microsoft 
> >>>>> passport.  He
> >>>>> uses email with his M$ passport, he uses it to check history of his
> >>>>> transactions on ebay, he uses it to view a word, excel, powerpoint 
> >>>>> documents,
> >>>>> he uses it to view his .NET photo album, he uses it to pay his 
> >>>>> utility, his
> >>>>> electricity, and everything bill, he uses it to play games, he uses 
> >>>>> to use MS
> >>>>> messenger, and he uses to talk on the Internet.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Once the number of services grow, you won't be able to get people 
> >>>>> to change
> >>>>> their "identity".  The services they use define them.  The user has no
> >>>>> incentive to switch to dotGNU when the Hailstorm ecosystem have all 
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> services they want.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Let's carry this senerio further.  The user will want to share 
> >>>>> documents to
> >>>>> his friends.  In order for his friends to view the document in .NET 
> >>>>> Word, he
> >>>>> needs to setup a M$ passport.  This friend sends the document to 
> >>>>> another
> >>>>> friend, who will have to setup an M$ passport to view a .NET Word 
> >>>>> document,
> >>>>> and so on.  It becomes viral.  This is worse than attaching a 
> >>>>> simple message
> >>>>> of every outgoing email from a hotmail account saying "FREE private 
> >>>>> email at
> >>>>> www.hotmail.com".
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> The Hailstorm ecosystem is like a virus, it will grow exponentially.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> My question is how is dotGNU going to convince users to use its 
> >>>>> system?  What
> >>>>> is the incentive for user to use dotGNU?  Is there a service 
> >>>>> available in the
> >>>>> dotGNU environment that they need?
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Here's another situation.  Let's say I'm Microsoft.  First I would 
> >>>>> encourage
> >>>>> as many third parties develop on my .NET platform.  At first I 
> >>>>> won't compete
> >>>>> against them.  I will help those third party developer out.  Then 
> >>>>> as more and
> >>>>> more developers become entrench.  I'll just start bundling my service
> >>>>> together.  One by one, I will slowly kill off the third party 
> >>>>> developer and
> >>>>> monopolize the web service industry.  I use this same tactic to 
> >>>>> dominate the
> >>>>> desktop market.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> --kent
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Developers mailing list
> >>>>> address@hidden
> >>>>> http://dotgnu.org/mailman/listinfo/developers
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Regards,
> >>> 
> >>> Jeremy
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> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
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Regards,

Jeremy
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