Re: [gNewSense-users] gNewSense for PowerPC?

[Rich DAddio]

Sounds good. 

By project pointer I meant a gnewsense PPC web page or
perhaps a gnewsense PPC specific mailing list.

Best Regards,

Rich d
--- "Kevin M. Dean" <address@hidden> wrote:

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> Rich DAddio wrote:
> 
> > You mean "irregular"... :)
> 
> Yeah. :) I'm a fan of Power and when I'm on x86 or
> AMD64 I'm an AMD fandboy.
> 
> > Also Freescale(former Motorola) has provided
> pretty
> > good and widely available documentation for
> developers
> > over the years. 
> 
> Yes, Freescale, IBM and Apple formed the Power
> consortium back then. The
> entire architecture has been open for a while - but
> Freescale has pretty
> much vanished as far as the consumer market goes and
> with Apple out of
> the game...
> 
> Power.org is a clearing house for all things Power,
> and it's backed by a
> group of companies, large and small, dedicated to
> keeping Power viable
> and open.
> 
> > That isn't "wacky" that is proprietary. Having
> used
> > and converted many Apple machines to Linux over
> the
> > years(I'm typing this on my debian G3) and having
> > lived thru the mklinux stuff, Apple hasn't always
> been
> > friendly to the Linux on Apple idea. 
> 
> I consider "proprietary", "locked", "restricted" and
> "managed" hardware
> to be wacky - it's hardware. It's not supposed to
> KNOW what software is
> running it, let alone do things differently because
> of it. :) It's like
> vegetables that change colour if they "think"
> they'll be used as soup or
> salad. :)
> 
> > 
> >> I am sure that PlayStation 3s
> >> do NOT require New
> >> World Boot Partitions, as old OLD Macs didn't
> have
> >> them and New Macs don't.
> > Well AFAIK the P3 uses the IBM Cell and is not a
> Apple
> > device in any way. Generally IBM and
> Freescale(mostly)
> > supplied PPC chips to Apple --just as IBM supplies
> > them to Sony. Moreover, the boot setup is
> particular
> > to the vendor using the cpus.
> > 
> > e.g. lots of PPC devices(not necessarily PCs per
> se)
> > use uboot and ext2/3 and none of the Apple
> specific
> > stuff.
> 
> That was my point as well. I'm not sure I made it
> clear, but I intend to
> make a Power based version, not JUST a PowerPC based
> Mac version. If we
> focus on Macs alone, we might as well not do it.
> Power on Mac is dead.
> Power in embedded, Power in PS3 (Cell is a Power
> architecture, but NOT
> PowerPC) and Power in servers are still very much
> alive and considering
> that PS3, Xbox 360 and Wii ALL run Power, I'd say
> it's got a bright future.
> 
> The problem with a Power port is that different
> power systems do
> different things. I.e. Releasing a Power gnewSense
> port that can't
> install on a PS3 is as bad in my mind as a version
> of X86 that can't
> install on AMD but does on Intel.
> 
> And that means, also, understanding the differences
> in the various
> systems the port would run on. But in terms of
> proprietary things, that
> could raise a lot of interesting issues with G3/4/5
> systems.
> 
> > I assume the goals of the PPC Gnewsense project
> are
> > similar to those of the x86 side. I am not sure of
> > this --I would have to go take a look-- but there
> may
> > be some firmware in the drivers that Apple folks
> are
> > going to dearly miss. Do you have any indications
> so
> > far?
> 
> Not really. I have a G4 that uses only basic
> networking, an IDE drive
> and an ATI video card. I've been asking about the
> ati driver because I'm
> still confused. :) I know there's ATI's non-free
> driver, and there was a
> driver called "radeon" at one point. I know the
> radeon driver from Xorg
> is consider non-free by gNS standards - but is that
> the ati driver or
> the radeon driver?
> 
> One thing I know for SURE... Vesa works. :) And in
> terms of delivering a
> libre system I consider that a "working device".
> Same with my ethernet
> interface, hard drive and CD rom drive.
> 
> But desktop have never really posed a problem, I
> think. It's those pesky
> laptops that ALWAYS pose issues. Throw wifi into the
> mix and we're in
> trouble already, and I can't say anything about
> power management. This
> is another stumbling block for me personally, and
> the project in
> general, we've not got an array of various devices
> to hack on.
> 
> I haven't had a chance at ALL to look at the kernel
> itself, I'd assume
> that Builder's edits to the source code would mean
> that all firmware
> would be gone BEFORE it was considered a "Power"
> kernel, but I've not
> even begun to TOUCH the kernel, so that's just a
> guess.
> 
> > Has there been any thought given to an "embedded"
> > Gnewsense project? Since "slimmed" down completely
> > free packages for PPC may have a lot of takers in
> that
> > domain.
> 
> I agree, which is why I think a Power port is vital.
> With the GNU GPL v3
> coming out and that impacting embedded devices a
> bit, a "solid ground"
> to stand on would be a great way to avoid unintended
> licensing issues.
> 
> > 
> > Do you have a project pointer??
> > 
> 
> Not sure what you mean by "project pointer".
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