Using a macro makes pdfetex quits and exits with bad status

[Christopher Dimech]

> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2021 at 6:34 AM
> From: "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org>
> To: "Christopher Dimech" <dimech@gmx.com>
> Cc: gavinsmith0123@gmail.com, help-texinfo@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Using a macro makes pdfetex quits and exits with bad status
>
> > From: Christopher Dimech <dimech@gmx.com>
> > Cc: gavinsmith0123@gmail.com, help-texinfo@gnu.org
> > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2021 19:00:29 +0200
> >
> > I used
> >
> > cd /home/hagbard/Admir/build/texinfo
> > ../../source/texinfo/configure --prefix=/home/hagbard/Admir/bin/texinfo
> > make
> > sudo make install
>
> The --prefix sets several other directories, including $bindir,
> $datadir, and several others.  $bindir is supposed to be on PATH.  If
> it isn't, you most probably don't have the stuff expected to be in
> $datadir, either.  And that probably means you will have problems when
> invoking commands that need to run programs outside of Texinfo, like
> TeX etc.
>
> Why didn't you configure Texinfo to be installed in the usual place,
> under /usr/local or somesuch?
>
> > make TEXMF=/home/hagbard/Admir/bin/texinfo/bin install-tex
>
> This is wrong in any case, you should have the TEXMF tree in
>
>   /home/hagbard/Admir/bin/texinfo/share/texmf
>
> or somesuch.  And of course one problem is that there's no TEXMF tree
> there, because TeX was probably installed in the "usual" places,
> somewhere under /usr.  I have absolutely no idea what will happen with
> commands involving TeX in such a case.
>
> > Have only been doing what I have been instructed to do.
>
> That's the problem: the instructions assume you have a normal install,
> but you don't.  So the instructions can easily be wrong or inaccurate
> or incomplete, because no one expects such non-standard installations,
> and people usually don't have a lot of experience with those.

Would agree that people usually don't have a lot of experience with that.

The best thing is to tell how to get a scheme that would work.  Gavin made
some changes and would like to test them, and report on any pending problems.

Gavin, how do you handle the different development versions, and could you add
a scheme that could work in the configure and install sections.  I am very
satisfied with how I frequently test gcc.

> > But I have observed some maintainers who consistently ridicule users
> > for deviating from the mainstream use of the software.
>
> No one ridiculed you.  You just need to realize that you are on your
> own when using this non-standard installation.

It would be a great improvement to have a standard on how we can test
newer versions of texinfo without affecting the stable version we normally
use.  It makes it very difficult for me to help out as a tester.

> > Why can't I have multiple versions of the program and run the ones I
> > want?
>
> You can, but you should know very well what you are doing, and how the
> different parts, in particular Texinfo and TeX, work together and what
> each one of them expects to find where.  If you don't know these
> details, my best recommendation is not to do that, as you will be
> facing an uphill battle.

I am quite sure you have more experience to be able to tell us exactly
how to set things up in the case of development versions.  It looks as
if few bother with what happens in the development version of texinfo.
Am I the only one who gets in all this trouble, I ask ?


> > Perhaps texinfo is a pain and you are unable to handle a solution
> > that is straightforward.
>
> Texinfo, as any other package, is supposed to be built and installed
> according to the supported procedures.  Anything else is always a
> pain, with any non-trivial package that installs many files, let alone
> depends on other packages that are installed separately.
>
> > At least Gavin tries his best to understand the difficulties users
> > face, unlike some others.
>
> I cannot speak for Gavin, I just wanted to warn you so you lower your
> expectations about the effectiveness and accuracy of the help you will
> get for your hand-made installation.  If you don't like what I'm
> telling you, feel free to disregard the advice and keep trying to make
> your installation work.
>
> > Can you give we a scheme that works so I can test the development version
> > independently of any other texinfo setup I have?
>
> No, I can't, not a practical scheme anyway.  For example, I have no
> idea how to force TeX to work correctly with texinfo.tex in one place
> and the full TEXMF tree in another.

That's the origin of the problem, nobody can give me a practical scheme to
follow.

> Why not simply install the development version instead the one you
> have already?  It will definitely be simpler to set up and use than
> what you are going through.

So I forget about using prefix in configure?  Is that what you are saying?
I would certainly require additional systems in case development versions
screw my working setup.  From experience I am hesitant of procedures that
modify stable installations.

Gavin, what do you think?  Do you think a separate installation of texinfo
is something that you can succeed in getting to work.  And then, instruct
us accordingly?

I am capable of giving up, but almost surely, I leave it as a last resort.
Notwithstanding the fact that I argue upon things pretty regularly.