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Re: difficulty getting quoteDuring to work in combination with transposi


From: user3871075
Subject: Re: difficulty getting quoteDuring to work in combination with transposition
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2015 15:03:09 -0600

Apologies in advance for the long post.  I've tried many different ways of applying your advice without success...

Based on your advice to make notes self-consistent (either \transpose or \transposition, but not both), I initially tried eliminating \transpose and (applying the same reasoning to clarinetNotes) tried the following:

\version "2.18.2"

trumpetNotes = \relative c'' {
  \transposition bes
  c4 |
  c4 |
  c4 |
  c4 |
}

\addQuote "trumpet" \trumpetNotes
clarinetNotes = \relative c'' {
  \transposition bes
  g4 |
  \quoteDuring #"trumpet" { s4 }
  g4 |
  g4 |
}

altoSaxNotes = \transpose c g \clarinetNotes

<<
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "trumpet" } \trumpetNotes
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "clarinet" } \clarinetNotes
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "alto sax" } \altoSaxNotes
>>

The trumpet and clarinet parts are fine.  The alto sax part correctly transposes beats 1, 3 and 4, but the 2nd beat prints a C instead of a G.

So, I thought maybe it had to do with 'altoSaxNotes = \transpose ...', so I tried it by having altoSaxNotes quote the clarinet part as follows:

\version "2.18.2"

trumpetNotes = \relative c'' {
  \transposition bes
  c4 |
  c4 |
  c4 |
  c4 |
}

\addQuote "trumpet" \trumpetNotes
clarinetNotes = \relative c'' {
  \transposition bes
  g4 |
  \quoteDuring #"trumpet" { s4 }
  g4 |
  g4 |
}

\addQuote "clarinet" \clarinetNotes
altoSaxNotes = {
  \transposition ees
  \quoteDuring #"clarinet" { s1 }
}

<<
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "trumpet" } \trumpetNotes
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "clarinet" } \clarinetNotes
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "alto sax" } \altoSaxNotes
>>

Again, the trumpet and clarinet parts are correct.  The alto sax part correctly prints beats 1, 3 and 4, but beat 2 is missing/invisible.

Ok, so you said the other way you suggested to make notes self-consistent was to use \transpose and eliminate \transposition.  However, based on your later statement that (paraphrasing) "\transposition must be correct in the passage being quoted into", I don't think it would be correct to remove \transposition from inside the clarinetNotes.  Ya, I know that introduces self-consistency problem with clarinetNotes (see further on).  Anyway, this is what I tried:

\version "2.18.2"

trumpetNotes = \transpose c bes \relative c'' {
  c4 |
  c4 |
  c4 |
  c4 |
}

\addQuote "trumpet" \trumpetNotes
clarinetNotes = \transpose c bes \relative c'' {
  \transposition bes
  g4 |
  \quoteDuring #"trumpet" { s4 }
  g4 |
  g4 |
}

altoSaxNotes = \clarinetNotes

<<
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "trumpet" } \transpose bes c { \trumpetNotes }
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "clarinet" } \transpose bes c { \clarinetNotes }
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "alto sax" } \transpose ees c { \altoSaxNotes }
>>

Again, the trumpet and clarinet parts are correct (well, the quoted note in the clarinet part is up an octave, but I could deal with that if that was the only issue).  Beats 1, 3 and 4 of the alto sax part print correctly, but beat 2 is a (high) C instead of a G.

So, going back to the concept of self-consistency in clarinetNotes, I tried it with \transposition but not \transpose:

\version "2.18.2"

trumpetNotes = \transpose c bes \relative c'' {
  c4 |
  c4 |
  c4 |
  c4 |
}

\addQuote "trumpet" \trumpetNotes
clarinetNotes = \relative c'' {
  \transposition bes
  g4 |
  \quoteDuring #"trumpet" { s4 }
  g4 |
  g4 |
}

altoSaxNotes = \transpose c g \clarinetNotes

<<
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "trumpet" } \transpose bes c { \trumpetNotes }
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "clarinet" } \clarinetNotes
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "alto sax" } \altoSaxNotes
>>

Same result.  Trying it with quoting into altoSaxNotes instead of explicit \transpose:

\version "2.18.2"

trumpetNotes = \transpose c bes \relative c'' {
  c4 |
  c4 |
  c4 |
  c4 |
}

\addQuote "trumpet" \trumpetNotes
clarinetNotes = \relative c'' {
  \transposition bes
  g4 |
  \quoteDuring #"trumpet" { s4 }
  g4 |
  g4 |
}

\addQuote "clarinet" \clarinetNotes
altoSaxNotes = {
  \transposition ees
  \quoteDuring #"clarinet" { s1 }
}

<<
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "trumpet" } \transpose bes c { \trumpetNotes }
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "clarinet" } \clarinetNotes
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "alto sax" } \altoSaxNotes
>>

Trumpet and clarinet parts print correctly (would need to fix octavation on the 2nd beat of the clarinet part).  The alto sax part prints beats 1, 3 and 4 correctly, but beat 2 is invisible/missing.

I'm kind of out of ideas along these lines, so I also tried your suggestion of changing the \addQuote to include transposition, even though "that seems really backwards".  Here it is:

\version "2.18.2"

trumpetNotes = \transpose c bes \relative c'' {
  \transposition bes
  c4 |
  c4 |
  c4 |
  c4 |
}

\addQuote "trumpet" \transpose bes c \trumpetNotes
clarinetNotes = \transpose c bes \relative c'' {
  \transposition bes
  g4 |
  \quoteDuring #"trumpet" { s4 }
  g4 |
  g4 |
}

altoSaxNotes = \clarinetNotes

<<
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "trumpet" } \transpose bes c { \trumpetNotes }
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "clarinet" } \transpose bes c { \clarinetNotes }
   \new Staff \with { instrumentName = "alto sax" } \transpose ees c { \altoSaxNotes }
>>

Results: trumpet and clarinet parts print correctly.  Alto sax is correct on beats 1, 3 and 4, but beat 2 prints C instead of G.

I suppose there are a few permutations I haven't tried, but given that the constant in all of these is that \quoteDuring doesn't seem to correctly survive multiple transpositions (whether explicitly with \transpose or implicitly due to quoting into a piece with a different \transposition), I'm suspecting a bug in lilypond.  Something along the lines of losing track of the effective \transposition of a quoted part in the face of further transpositions.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, and I appreciate any/all help.

-Russ


On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 12:50 PM, David Kastrup <address@hidden> wrote:
user3871075 <address@hidden> writes:

> David,
>
> Based on this statement from the documentation:
>
> http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/writing-parts#quoting-other-voices
>
> *The \quoteDuring command uses the \transposition settings of both quoted
> and quoting parts to produce notes for the quoting part that have the same
> sounding pitch as those in the quoted part.*
>
> it would seem to me like what I've done ought to be correct.  (But I don't
> deny that it's not working as I would expect! :))  Since the effective
> transposition of trumpetNotes is c' c', then when that gets quoted into a
> part with \transposition bes, lilypond should realized that it needs to
> automatically \transpose c bes that particular passage from trumpetNotes.
>
> Regardless, I tried your various suggestions, and they do indeed fix the
> problem in the clarinet part, but the alto sax part stubbornly prints a C
> instead of a G.  If you have the time and inclination, perhaps you could
> post an example where all three parts print correctly...?
>
> Thanks again!

You don't post your attempts so it is impossible to comment on them.




--
David Kastrup



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