Re: [www-tr-comm] Turkish Translation of Proprietary Software

[The FLOSS Information]

The FLOSS Information:

> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/fs-translations.html
>  
> Proprietary Software: sahipli yazılım
>  
> It is referred to as "sahipli yazılım" on Wikipedia. A Turkish-speaking FSF member calls it "özel mülk yazılım".
>  
> https://tureng.com/tr/turkce-ingilizce/proprietary%20software
>  
> Tureng called it "firmaya özel yazılım".
>  
> If I were you, I'd trust Wikipedia.
>  
> Commercial Software: ticari yazılım
>  
> https://tureng.com/tr/turkce-ingilizce/commercial%20software
>  
> You can easily use the term "ticari yazılım".

Richard Stallman:

> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
>   > Proprietary Software: sahipli yazılım
>
>   > It is referred to as "sahipli yazılım" on Wikipedia. A Turkish-speaking FSF
>   > member calls it "özel mülk yazılım".
>
>   > Tureng called it "firmaya özel yazılım".
>
> That page states the translations we recommend.
> What Turkish translation should we recommend for this?
>
> I don't know.  But we should not adopt other people's practices
> without thought.  People are often confused about the concept and use
> words for it that don't express the point well.
>
> Indeed, the English word "proprietary" is not a very good word for the
> concept.  I am looking for a better one.
>
> The Spanish word "privativo" (meaning, tending to deprive people) is
> much better -- but I can't find a good way to express that in English.
>
> Can you please tell us (not just me) what "sahipli", "özel", "mülk"
> and "firmaya" mean, individually?

The FLOSS Information:

> SAHİPLİ
> -----------
>
> ...
>  
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sahipli
>  
> English equivalent
> /////////////////////////
>
> ...
>  
> https://www.seslisozluk.net/sahipli-nedir-ne-demek/
>  
> ÖZEL
> -------
>
> ...
>  
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C3%B6zel
>  
> English equivalent
> /////////////////////////
>
> ...
>  
> https://www.seslisozluk.net/%C3%B6zel-nedir-ne-demek/
>  
> MÜLK
> --------
>
> ...
>  
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/m%C3%BClk
>  
> English equivalent
> /////////////////////////
>
> ...
>  
> https://www.seslisozluk.net/m%C3%BClk-nedir-ne-demek/
>  
> FİRMA
> ---------
>
> ...
>  
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/firma#Turkish
>  
> English equivalent
> /////////////////////////
>
> ...
>  
> https://www.seslisozluk.net/firma-nedir-ne-demek/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> PERSONAL ADVICE
>  
> ...
>  
> I think this term may be "yoksunlaştırıcı yazılım".
>  
> ...
>  
> Additionally, you may have to edit articles on GNU.org.

Richard Stallman:

> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
> Based on your explanation of those four words, I think that none of
> them is a good way to express the concept of nonfree software.  Partly
> that is because "proprietary software" is also not a good way to
> express that concept.  I adopted that expression in 1983 or 1984, when
> I had not yet analyzed the concept clearly.
>
> The right concept is, software that deprives the users of freedom,
> software that subjugates them, software that gives someone else power
> over them.
>
> How do you suggest expressing that in Turkish?
>
>   > I think this term may be "yoksunlaştırıcı yazılım".
>
> What does yoksunlaştırıcı mean?

We study other words.

Richard Stallman:

> In English I am thinking about adopting the phrase, "subjugatory
> software", but I have not checked with a lot of people about how
> they feel about that.

The FLOSS Information:

> How is this term?
>  
> authoritarian software: otoriter yazılım

Richard Stallman:

> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
>   > How is this term?
>
>   > authoritarian software: otoriter yazılım
>
> The English term "authoritarian software" might be good.
> I never tried that.
>
> Have you tried asking Turkish speakers about "otoriter yazılım"?

I tried to summarize the subject. I hope you understand.

11.01.2020 09:57 tarihinde T. E. KALAYCI yazdı:
> Hello,
>
> I don't know the origin of the discussion in this e-mail. So, I can
> only send you translations we are currently using. We are using the
> following Turkish translations for specified terms (historically, with
> agreement) in the translation team (missing ones can be added to [1]):
>
> - free software = özgür yazılım
> - non-free software = özgür olmayan yazılım
> - commercial software = ticari yazılım
> - proprietary software = özel mülk yazılım
>
> We always strive to keep the integrity and compliance of translation
> to the English original. We can't change Turkish equivalent to
> something else to mean something different when translating a specific
> English term listed above.
>
> But if you would like to know some (new) additional Turkish
> terms/translations for specific software categories/conditions not
> listed above, we can discuss this separately.
>
> Best,
> Emre
>
> [1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/fs-translations.html
>
> The FLOSS Information <address@hidden>, 11 Oca 2020
> Cmt, 07:21 tarihinde şunu yazdı:
>
> > Richard Stallman (address@hidden) direkt olarak kendisi ile danışılmasını
> > istiyor.
> >
> > 11.01.2020 03:19 tarihinde Richard Stallman yazdı:
> > > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> > > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> > > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> > >
> > >     > A member of the translation team may submit Turkish terms on Saturday or
> > >     > Sunday. The problem is you didn't want that term. They think that the
> > >     > Turkish equivalent should be compatible with the English term.
> > >
> > > Can you ask them to talk with me directly?