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Re: Emacs and Guile
From: |
Eli Zaretskii |
Subject: |
Re: Emacs and Guile |
Date: |
Wed, 11 Apr 2012 10:29:26 +0300 |
> From: BT Templeton <address@hidden>
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 19:57:15 -0400
>
> Guile would need better Microsoft Windows and MS-DOS support before
> using Guile as the default Elisp implementation. But that's not a reason
> to delay work on Guile-Emacs for free systems.
Please don't make this a free vs non-free systems argument; it's not.
Please try to read the threads I pointed to as a sign of immaturity of
Guile on _any_ platform. Otherwise, I will regret I ever spoke,
because nothing but flames will come out of this thread.
> In what respect does Guile need to catch up on GNU/Linux?
I gave one example: support for non-ASCII characters. I have bad
feelings about a few others, but I think someone who knows Guile
better should look into this. One area I'd love expert opinion is how
will Guile GC interact with Emacs memory management.
Anyway, I hope you are not saying that just GNU/Linux is enough for
serious use of Guile in Emacs.
> > To me, the failure to build in these cases is a clear sign of a
> > package that is not ready for prime time.
>
> ...on non-free, non-POSIX platforms, yes.
Not just. One of the threads I pointed to clearly says that Guile is
being tested on 2 or 3 platforms. That's way too few, IMO, and I
think it goes a long way towards explaining the problems.
> > Or consider Guile's support of non-ASCII characters, which relies on
> > libiconv with no additional features -- we cannot possibly consider
> > this complete enough to replace what we have in Emacs now.
>
> Fortunately, Guile doesn't need to immediately replace what Emacs has
> now. It's less elegant to make Elisp strings a separate type, and would
> make interaction with Scheme less pleasant, but for an experimental
> version it would be acceptable.
I disagree. Strings are very fundamental to Emacs. I don't see how
Guile can be basis for any significant feature in Emacs without
supporting the emacs-internal encoding of characters. If I cannot
safely pass a string from Emacs to Guile and back, then the range of
possible Guile-based applications in Emacs is quite narrow, I'd say.
> > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-user/2012-01/msg00130.html
>
> I don't see the significance of this particular thread; it's a trivial
> problem that was quickly resolved.
The fact that this trivial problem was present is telltale, IMO.
There's some history behind it. I was the one who bumped into that
problem as soon as I built Make with Guile on MS-Windows. My first
thought was that something is wrong with the way I invoked Guile from
Make. So I asked Paul Smith about this, and he said he didn't see
this problem, but the way I called a Guile function was correct. I
next thought that my Guile build is botched in some fundamental way.
But then Paul tried Guile 2.x and hit the same problem. So not only
there is a "trivial problem", but also there are still significant
changes between Guile 1.8 and 2.0. These are all signs of immaturity
IMO.
- Re: GSoC projects related to Emacs, (continued)
- Re: Emacs and Guile, BT Templeton, 2012/04/10
- Re: Emacs and Guile,
Eli Zaretskii <=
- Re: Emacs and Guile, Thien-Thi Nguyen, 2012/04/11
- Re: Emacs and Guile, Eli Zaretskii, 2012/04/11
- RE: Emacs and Guile, Drew Adams, 2012/04/11
- Re: Emacs and Guile, BT Templeton, 2012/04/11
- RE: Emacs and Guile, Drew Adams, 2012/04/11
- Re: Emacs and Guile, Richard Stallman, 2012/04/13
- Re: Emacs and Guile, Thien-Thi Nguyen, 2012/04/13
- Re: Emacs and Guile, Miles Bader, 2012/04/13
- Re: Emacs and Guile, Thien-Thi Nguyen, 2012/04/22
- Re: Emacs and Guile, Andy Wingo, 2012/04/11