Re: [Gap-dev-discuss] Reminder: FOSDEM 2012 – cal l for devroom talks

[Sebastian Reitenbach]

 Hi,

I have the proposed list put up in a html page.
https://www.l00-bugdead-prods.de/Presentation/index.html

Fred also offered to help out with the presentation.

Some of the links go to pages which don't have an extension, therefore the 
plain html is shown. This is because I mirrored wiki.gnustep.org and some of 
the pages just don't have an extension. But this works well when opening the 
files locally.

It would be really great if we could get the vespucci issue resolved. 
Presenting GNUstep apps, I think it would be cool, to use 
a GNUstep browser to do that ;)

Otherwise, on the head of the page, I'd like to get input for some stuff that 
better describes gnustep as a whole, or GAP.
The stuff that is there, is a bit taken from the Mission/About pages, but if 
someone can help out with some better words, that would help a lot.

Further, the list of applications. Did I missed something important that should 
be mentioned?
I wanted to add Cenon to the Image applications too.
Fred was talking about adding CoreBreach to the Games. I only run OpenBSD, 
therefore cannot show it, but If Fred could take install it on his notebook and 
shortly show it, and talk a bit about it, what improvements in -base and -gui 
were done to get it to work, that would also be good.

Do I have applications in the list that you think I could skip, not worth 
mentioning?

So far, I updated all GAP pages, made sure, that they all have the same look n 
feel, and for some, I added some more infos.
If someone could review it, check whether there is important info missing, 
would be good if it could be updated.
I also started to update some pages in wiki.gnustep.org for apps I want want 
show. 

I also started approaching some developers of other applications not hosted at 
GAP. Asking them for their future plans of their applications. So hope to get 
some feedback to not only talk about the state of the art, but also give an 
outlook for the future.

Therefore, for GAP apps, and the general GNUstep apps, someone has plans/news 
that should be spreaded ;)

For GAP: I think, after a new gnustep core release, there will be some updates 
coming, Riccardo has some stuff in the queue.
Further, probably NeXTGo should also get an update, since the actual release 
doesn't build with strict gnustep make 2.0.
Further, PictureFrame has some flaws, i.e. the cluttered menu, and the 
weatherService doesn't work. Also Ladder doesn't work for me, it starts, but I 
never managed to start a game, it doesn't take my mouse input. I feel ignored ;)

Another idea I got why playing with Vespucci:
Nearly all GNUstep applications don't have a working help. I question why? I 
guess creating rtf documents is not that easy? At least for me,
this is true. But creating html pages is easy, just fire up the preferred text 
editor, and start typing.
When the image problem may be fixed, and there would be a 0.1 release of SWK, 
and a 0.1 release of Vespucci. Then I got the idea, that the help button could 
call a service open URL and point to local help html files. Creating nice 
looking html files is fairly easy. Making it easy to generate help 
documentation, wold probably encourage more people to create some at all. Maybe 
need some talking to Nikolaus about a SWK release. 


OK, so long text.
Hope to some get some feedback ;)

cheers,
Sebastian 


On Tuesday, January 10, 2012 10:05 CET, "Sebastian Reitenbach" <address@hidden> 
wrote: 
 
> Hi,
>  
> On Friday, January 6, 2012 15:29 CET, "Sebastian Reitenbach" <address@hidden> 
> wrote: 
>  
> >  Hi,
> > 
> > 
> > On Friday, January 6, 2012 14:48 CET, Riccardo Mottola <address@hidden> 
> > wrote: 
> >  
> > > Hi Sebastian,
> > > 
> > > On 01/05/12 15:13, Sebastian Reitenbach wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I could talk about stuff happened on GAP last year. Especially the 
> > > > new/updated applications where I was involved, i.e.  Batmon, AClock, 
> > > > Sudoku, GMines, LapisPuzzle, Jigsaw, GMastermind, Neos Theme. Did I 
> > > > missed anything?
> > > Well, it would be nice talking about those, to show that there was 
> > > progress in the last year. It doesn't need to be a long talk, just 
> > > presenting them, showing that they exist (and of course that they are 
> > > packaged for OpenBSD!) shows that there is interest.
> > > I Consider of course BatMon a bit more important since it is in the 
> > > system tool catecory and not just a game.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Do you maybe plan on having anything released before FOSDEM?
> > > It depends if we release GUI before or not. PRICE and DataBasin are 
> > > close to a release...
> > 
> > OK, I already guessed it might depend on it. So I hope too ;)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > It would be good to present the more professional stuff.
> > > 
> > > Graphos made big strides!
> > > GSPdf got revived and works well (and together with Graphos shows our 
> > > print-preview working, totally with native apps)
> > > LaternaMagica
> > > PRICE status and development (even if not strictly GAP)
> > > 
> > > perhaps Grr? and DataBasin?
> > > 
> > > We can also just present maintained application, not just "new" 
> > > features. Most people will not know much about GNUstep and even less 
> > > about GAP.
> > > 
> > > Perhaps we should treat this on the GAP mailing list so Greg and others 
> > > can join in and it remains archived. One thread for each app.
> > 
> > Before starting a new thread on each app, let me summarize here:
> 
> I don't create a new thread for each app, I think it would be too 
> overwhelming, and more confusing than just this single thread.
> 
> 
> > 
> > I can present nearly anything that is on GAP, since most of it is in the 
> > OpenBSD ports tree, but not maybe showing all features, since not yet 
> > released.
> > I could also install everything gnustep core from SVN, and GAP CVS, to show 
> > latest features.
> > I guess the second approach would be even better, but I should start soon 
> > installing and testing, I don't want to show a lot of crashers, and other 
> > strange bugs ;)
> 
> My plan was the following:
> 
> Instead of creating slides, I''ll create a html page, and from there, link 
> and go to the homepages of the applications I'll want to present. I'll mirror 
> all the web pages locally on my notebook, just to be prepared of a network 
> outage ;)
> 
> To help me with the presentation, please review the homepages of the 
> applications on GAP and for PRICE, and also on the 
> www.gnustep.org/experience/{at least GWorkspace/ProjectCenter/Gorm/ and maybe 
> more}. Please check those pages, and make sure, all the gory features of the 
> applications are listed there.
> 
> For the Agenda of the presentation I think about the following:
> 
> - Present/promote GNUstep as a powerful framework to create applications
>    * something like the mission: 
> http://www.gnustep.org/information/mission.html (if this could also be 
> reviewed and updated if necessary, would be good too)
> - Present GAP and its goals
>    * http://gap.nongnu.org/information/aboutGAP.html (should potentially also 
> be reviewed)
> - Present some applications, I wanted to group them like:
>  * General desktop applications
>    - GWorkspace, SystemPreferences, Burn, Affiche, FTP, GSPdf, Zipper,
>  * Development applications
>    - ProjectCenter, Gorm, DBModeler, Gemas
>  * PIM Applications
>    - GNUMail, Addresses, Grr, SimpleAgenda, DataBasin here right, or some 
> other category?
>  * Dock Applications
>    - TimeMon, BatMon, AClock
>  * Games
>    - GShisen, Sudoku, GMines, LapsiPuzzle, Jigsaw, GMastermind, Gomoku, ...
>  * Graphics Applications
>    - PRICE, Cenon, ImageViewer, 
>  * Audio Applications
>    - VolumeMixer, CDPlayer, MPDCon
> 
> 
> With regard to Bean, and Flexisheet: Bean doesn't even seem to have a 
> GNUmakefile, so that I'm not able to compile and test it at all, so I'd 
> probably leave that out of the presentation. FlexiSheet compiles, and also 
> runs, but I was not able to do something useful with it? For me in its actual 
> state, it doesn't look useful at all, or maybe I'm missing something?
> 
> What else, suggestions?
> 
> Also I take suggestions, which of them should be presented?
> 
> I already started the HTML file, and I'll hope to have something showable by 
> the end of the week, so you can comment on it.
> 
> 
> cheers,
> Sebastian
> 
> 
> > 
> > So I could concentrate on: 
> >  * BatMon (unfortunately my Libretto is too unstable for a presentation, 
> > and my other notebook doesn't have a recent enough BIOS, so ACPI is not 
> > enabled, and BatMon only shows a few numbers, not all it could show)
> >  * PRICE
> >  * Graphos
> >  * GSPdf
> >  * DataBasin
> >  * LaternaMagica
> >  * Grr/RSSKit
> >  * AClock and TimeMon
> >  * Mention the Games available there
> > 
> >  I don't know anything about the state of FlexiSheet and Bean, is it 
> > showable?
> > 
> > I'll start a new thread on each, If someone thinks I missed sth. important, 
> > please start other threads for the missing applications.
> > 
> > I could also speak about other applications which are interesting, and I 
> > have in the OpenBSD ports tree:
> > * GWorkspace
> > * CDPlayer
> > * Burn (not yet in the ports tree, but works fine on OpenBSD, its also 
> > waiting for a new gnustep core release)
> > * FisicaLab
> > * AddressManager
> > * SimpleAgenda
> > * Affiche
> > * SystemPreferences
> > * Zipper
> > 
> > Having a short slide for each application, talking about it for a minute or 
> > two, And I already spend half an hour. Afterwards, I can demonstrate some 
> > of the applications, and I'd fill a full slot with this presentation.
> > 
> > > 
> > > > While presenting GAP at the FOSDEM, what would you think about trying 
> > > > to encourage people to contact GAP, to have their applications hosted 
> > > > there? Smth. like a GNUstep App shop, often discussed on the m/l, but 
> > > > never really smth. happend. We just need to sell it to the people, 
> > > > advantages would be:
> > > >   * better public visibility than when all apps are spreaded around the 
> > > > web
> > > >   * get a "nice" looking webpage for the app on GAP
> > > >   * hosted in CVS, many developer have access to it, and could easily 
> > > > help fixing bugs found in it
> > > >   * if the main developer steps out of the project, others can easily 
> > > > take over
> > > >   * since GAP is nongnu.org, the license restrictions to accept a GAP 
> > > > project/app are much easier to handle
> > > >   * give example about the applications from Marko Riedele, and 
> > > > AClock...
> > > >
> > > > What do you think about that? Maybe it could be better discussed on 
> > > > gap-dev m/l.
> > > I don't think it is generally a good idea to encourage it that way. GAP 
> > > is not a kitchen sink. Sure, if somebody has an App that seeks a place 
> > > fine.
> > > But currently GAP needs help.. people like you. We already have some 
> > > applications which linger there (think about the promising FlexiSheet 
> > > and Beam fork).
> > > Greg's daily work and his duties as project leader leave very little 
> > > time for GAP. Most stuff comes from me and you lately and some kind 
> > > fixes by Wolfgang and Fred.
> > 
> > OK, then I'll maybe only more generally ask for help with the Project, and 
> > offer a place for Apps which don't have a home (yet).
> > 
> > > 
> > > Add to that that in theory GAP shout migrate to be a full GNU project. 
> > > Stallman asked for that and there are no problems and we agreed, but the 
> > > migration is stuck since the past 2 years or so :)
> > 
> > Ah, OK, I wasn't aware of that one. 
> > 
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Sebastian
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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