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Re: [gNewSense-users] Just some things I'd like to say....

From: Larry Cafiero
Subject: Re: [gNewSense-users] Just some things I'd like to say....
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:05:38 -0700

Kevin said:

". . . you've got people who have the programming skill of a poddle checking the copyrights,
raising bugs and making gNewSense more freedom respecting."

My programming skills have improved that much, eh Kevin . . .? :-)

[Karl: I may fall into the category of the AWOL. Sorry, but I've been lurking on the list while I've been away -- family issues and school (a 50-year-old college freshman here, studying -- what else? -- computer science). I can say that a.) I have finally got gNewSense up and running on an old Intel box I saved from the dump (one of several);  b.) as soon as I get my new office sorted out, I will be able to contribute more, especially in the way of documentation; and c.) I can see how Shuttleworth's comments could have been taken as a verbose "shut up," however I think Justin is right -- I think Shuttleworth's intention was to say "everyone has ideas, but who's going to chop the wood and carry the water (so to speak)?" Obviously Mark S. could have done better in verbalizing this, and rather than focus on this, the group should be doing what Kevin correctly says it has been doing well all along -- having a team of committed individuals (this author excluded) with varying degrees of programming skills putting out and maintaining an excellent, totally "free-as-in-freedom" distro.

Larry Cafiero
< humor >Charter member
gNewSense Poodle Programming Caucus (a.k.a., gNS PPC -- no, not that PPC)< /humor >

(Note: The humor tag can be replaced with the humour tag for all English speakers outside the U.S.A.)

On 10/17/07, Karl Goetz <address@hidden> wrote:
On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 11:08 -0400, Justin Baugh wrote:
> > Folks, this is a -devel list, primarily for discussion of work that people
> > are actually doing on Gobuntu. Most of the traffic so far as been "what we
> > want from Gobuntu" not "what we will put into Gobuntu". Please don't use
> > this list as a forum for demands about your ideal platform - use it to
> > discuss the work you are willing to put into bringing Gobuntu more into
> > line with that ideal.
> > Gobuntu exists as a forum for action - it will only be as good as the
> > effort that goes into it. Colin, Evan, Daniel Holbach and others will help
> > anyone who wants to put time and effort into Gobuntu achieve that goal.
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > Is he saying that, of all the feedback and ideas on how to make Gobuntu
> > more free he is acturaly telling us to basicaly shut up?!
> You missed his point entirely.
> What Shuttleworth is saying is that much like on this mailing list, there
> are lots of people occasionally clamoring for a feature or something they
> want - but want someone else to do it for them. Very rarely on this list
> (*please* correct me if I am wrong) do you see someone propose a feature
> that they actually implement themselves. PFV is the only exception of

We have a few of people coming with a request, and then disapearing when
they get told whats involved (typically backport requests).

> something that lots of people are helping with (btw Chris, as a sidenote,
> I disagree entirely that the bottleneck for having a updated gNS release
> is PFV. It would seem to be instead exclusively related to available
> developer time).

As i understand it, its not a bottle neck in a serious way. its *awsome*
to have it done, but until we arnt working on our next release because
its not done its not a bottle neck. Since gNS's goal was to base off
ubuntu LTS releases, we arnt there yet :)

> He's basically saying that people making endless requests is unhelpful.
> And you know what? He's right. It's far more helpful for someone to
> discuss what work they can actually do to achieve a goal rather than to
> just clamor for the goal over and over again. He's not telling people to
> shut up - rather, to put up. gNS should illustrate that making a totally
> free OS is not an easy task, and not to be taken lightly. Action is worth
> ten thousand words.

At least gNS has a 'how to help' page, and definitions as to what should
be taken out (etc). gobuntu currently lacks these.

> I don't think his response is so horrible, personally. I'm more than happy
> to entertain a discussion of why it is, however.
> -Justin

Karl Goetz,
Debian user / Ubuntu contributer / gNewSense contributer

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