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Re: [Gnu-arch-users] OT: Lisp
From: |
Tom Lord |
Subject: |
Re: [Gnu-arch-users] OT: Lisp |
Date: |
Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:18:19 -0800 (PST) |
> From: Joshua Haberman <address@hidden>
> I have no desire to start a language war (honest!) but I would like to
> understand what Lisp offers to the landscape of programming
> languages.
This topic recently came up on a lisp mailing list I'm on. I replied
as follows, which most people seemed to think was a pretty good
answer:
What makes lisp (not CL or Scheme, just lisp) unique is that there
have been so many people, over so many years, all communicating and
sharing ideas and results, who have separately made new or extended
old dialects of lisp languages, all subject to the informal
constraint that their work be recognizable by fellow lispers as
worthy of the name "lisp".
Lisp is one of the most branched, most recombined, longest lived,
_conversations_ about programming language and programming
environment design ever. The conversation has been participated in
by many of the shining stars of computing and continues to this day.
In short, lisp is one of the best expressions we have of what is wise
and worthwhile in a programming language. Since we have come up
with a fair amount of wisdom over the years, it is hardly surprising
that the benefits of lisp can't be summed up in a pithy sentence or
two like "everything is an object" or "you can get down to the bits
in the hardware" or "you can do fancy meta-programming" or "you can
use macros to define domain specific languages". You can
accurately say many such things about lisp but that's the point:
you can accurately say _many_ such things about lisp.
In that light, CL is an interesting milestone. Unlike many lisps
prior and since, CL was not created to "make a new and improved
lisp" but rather, to collect the wisdom of several separate and
sucessful lisps and unify them in a common dialect with which all
could be made compatible. CL is a kind of community-generated
synopsis of much of the "lisp conversation" up to the point of CL's
creation.
Programming language "fads" show up from time to time: "object
oriented programming" or "constraint-driven data flow" or "aspect
oriented programming". You often hear lispers at least chuckle a
bit at these fads and maybe mutter "Gee, we've had that for decades"
or "Gosh, that's trivial to do in lisp". With the fads often come
new language designs that try to use the fad as the central,
organizing concept --- such languages attempt to simplify the
problem of programming language design by finding a "magic bullet"
that eliminates the need for any other approach.
I think that such "fad languages" are perpetually doomed to
long-term failure or severe mutation. There is no magic bullet in
language design. Rather, there is a rich tapestry woven from many
divergent lines of thought about language design -- the tapestry
itself an attempt to bring those lines of thought together to form a
pleasing and coherent pattern. That rich tapestry is lisp.
-t
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] is there demand for itla?, (continued)
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] is there demand for itla?, Ian Duggan, 2003/11/16
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] is there demand for itla?, Tom Lord, 2003/11/16
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] is there demand for itla?, Ian Duggan, 2003/11/16
- [Gnu-arch-users] Re: is there demand for itla?, Miles Bader, 2003/11/16
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] is there demand for itla?, Tom Lord, 2003/11/16
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] is there demand for itla?, Ian Duggan, 2003/11/17
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] is there demand for itla?, Robert Collins, 2003/11/17
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] is there demand for itla?, Charles Duffy, 2003/11/17
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] is there demand for itla?, Stephen J. Turnbull, 2003/11/18
- [Gnu-arch-users] OT: Lisp, Joshua Haberman, 2003/11/19
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] OT: Lisp,
Tom Lord <=
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] OT: Lisp, Joshua Haberman, 2003/11/19
- [Gnu-arch-users] Re: OT: Lisp, Miles Bader, 2003/11/19
- [Gnu-arch-users] Re: OT: Lisp, Tom Lord, 2003/11/19
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] OT: Lisp, Tom Lord, 2003/11/19
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] OT: Lisp, Joshua Haberman, 2003/11/20
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] OT: Lisp, Scott Parish, 2003/11/20
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] OT: Lisp, Tom Lord, 2003/11/20
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] OT: Lisp, Jan Hudec, 2003/11/22
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] OT: Lisp, Colin Walters, 2003/11/20
- Re: [Gnu-arch-users] OT: Lisp, Dustin Sallings, 2003/11/20