Re: Incipits

[Karl Hammar]

Till:
> Juergen Reuter schrieb:
> > as far as I understand, all problems with incipits boil down to the 
> > following two major issues:
> >
> >   (1) horizontal spacing, and

I did not focus on that, it is an ancient notation issue, it is not
specific to incipits.

> >   (2) the system start delimiter.
> >
> > Karl's solution unfortunately leaves horizontal space between the 
> > incipit and the actual score; hence it does *not* solve issue (2).  
> > Rather, the score lines should not stop inbetween.

If you don't like the space, then remove the \stopStaff \startStaff 
thing. But then, whats wrong with the \bar "||" variant as Till suggests
below. (cont. below)

> Well, I am not so sure about that. I agree, the space is a bit too big 
> here, but I personally like Nocolas' solution where the space mainly 
> covers the distance between the choirstaff brace and the beginning of 
> the staff. I know that much incipits are engraved with the double line 
> method that is now used in the templates, but it feels logical to me 
> that the "real" staff with the brace start only after the incipit. I 
> somehow recall this would be also "hand engraved convention", but I 
> might be wrong. There is an example pdf on the list sent by Stefan 
> Slapeta that shows a broad range of incipits which show mainly the staff 
> lines going through all the way. So it might be my personal opinion only 
> that it would be nice to have the incipit seperated by a little white space.

Getting less space is simple, us less space between \stop-\startStaff.
See attached pdf.

$ diff -u  c.ly.old c.ly
--- c.ly.old    2008-02-11 19:41:54.923054408 +0100
+++ c.ly        2008-02-11 19:42:34.417301808 +0100
@@ -34,8 +34,8 @@
   \stopStaff
   \once \override Score.TimeSignature #'print-function = ##f
   \nor
-  \time 3/8
-  s4.
+  \time 1/16
+  s16
   \revert Score.SpanBar #'print-function
   \revert Score.BarLine #'print-function
   \startStaff
@@ -74,7 +74,7 @@
 \score {
   \new ChoirStaff \with {
     % a pain to set? Thats Right!!!
-    \override SystemStartBracket #'extra-offset = #'( 38.8 . 0 )
+    \override SystemStartBracket #'extra-offset = #'( 30.2 . 0 )
   } {
     <<
       \new Staff {

> 
> Till
> >
> > IMHO, all other features have been quite well demonstrated in template 
> > A.5.1 for a while now.  Hence, you probably should concentrate on 
> > solving these two remaining issues.
> >
> > Regarding issue (2), maybe the "right" solution is to extend the 
> > system start delimiter implementation in such a way, that
> >
> >   (a) automatic printing at the system start may be suppressed for a
> >       specific range of the score with kind of
> >       "\turnSystemStartDelimiterOff" and "\turnSystemStartDelimiterOn"
> >       commands, and
> >
> >   (b) a kind of "\bar #'system-start-delimiter" command prints an
> >       additional system start delimiter whereever you want.  (But if this
> >       bar should happen to appear at the system start, the delimiter
> >       should not be printed twice.)

That would be nice, but you can use the workaround with the 
extra-offset as shown above.

> > Regarding issue (1), I am not sure what the "right" solution is.  
> > Please note that the note durations in the incipit are typically much 
> > larger than in the actually score.  Karl and Nicolas, did you check 
> > what happens with the horizontal spacing in your incipit solutions, if 
> > you double or quadruple the note durations in the incipit (and only 
> > there)?  In your examples, in the incipts you are unfortunately using 
> > the same durations as in the actual score.  I may be wrong, but I 
> > suspect that your solutions do *not* solve issue (1).

No I did not try. Try this (\men \nor as in previous mail)

 cold = { \clef "petrucci-c4" }
 cnew = { \clef "treble_8" }

 \new Voice \relative c {
   \men\cold d\breve*1/8 e\longa*1/16 f\maxima*1/32 g\breve*1/8
   \nor\cnew | d4 e2 f4~ | f2. g4 |
 }

I tried with 

 B = #(ly:make-duration -1 0 1 8)
...
 d\B e\L f\M

but it didn't work.

Maybe someone have know how to write a function \foo:
 breve -> breve*1/8
 ...

I tried with

% as a first test
#(define-public (nop music)
  (if (ly:duration? music)
   (let music (ly:make-duration -1 0 1 8))))

foo = #(define-music-function (parser location music)
        (ly:music?)
        (let ((new-music (ly:music-deep-copy music)))
         (music-map nop new-music)
         new-music))

but it didn't work. 

%%%

You can use the lsr snippet 305 to scale down the note values (and a 
modern lilypond version). There is the problem with/without ligatures
with solutions like A.5.1 and the one I provided. And it would 
probably be som problems with incipits in vaticana style.

%%%

What would be nice is to be able to glue to \scores together, without a 
newline. Then one could have independent engraving on the historical 
and the modern part, or to have multiple parts stacked together,
continuing on the same line.

%%%

Also it would be nice to have an
 #(set-accidental-style 'renaissance)
which would be like 'forget, except it remebers the previous note.

> > IIRC, the spacing engine maintains a variable that keeps track of 
> > shortest available duration in a peace in computes the ideal distance 
> > of larger note values in a logarithmic scale based on the shortest 
> > duration.  Maybe this computation needs to be changed for the incipit 
> > (and only there!) to get tighter spacing in the incipit.

Regards,
/Karl

c.pdf
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