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Re: [frogs] Frog's Lament

From: Han-Wen Nienhuys
Subject: Re: [frogs] Frog's Lament
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:24:42 -0200

On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Carl Sorensen <address@hidden> wrote:
>> Then, I miss some general information of the future goals. Ok, the bugs
>> should be
>> eliminated, but rumor says that there are efforts to move functionality
>> from c++ to scheme.
>> Is this true?
> As far as I know, the goal to move functionality from c++ to Scheme is not a
> means to eliminate any use of c++ code.  To me, it appears that what is
> hoped is that all of the management of the parsing, iterating, engraving,
> and translating will remain in c++, but that all of the output creation
> (both graphical and MIDI) will be in scheme.  If that is the case, then
> everything can be modified in Scheme, and c++ is only needed when a new
> engraver or translator is to be created.

There is not a goal per se to move stuff from C++ to Scheme, but
rather to expose relevant (C++) interfaces to Scheme so people can
write the extensions in Scheme if they want.

Come to think of it, it's actually a neat project to write a Scheme
interface to engravers.  It would be a suitably sized project for me
to do over the christmas/newyear holidays.

>> a strong will to improve lilypond; without insulting anyone, I would ask
>> the core
>> developers to try to see the whole story from somebody's point of view
>> who has no
>> clue where to start, limited time, but nevertheless the will to make
>> things better.

I  have a different viewpoint.  I am mystified by the desire of some
people to mess with the most complicated parts of the program, without
having the knowledge to pull that.  It's possible to do that, but it
requires a lot of skill in absording a lot of code quickly.  From a
didactic point of view,  I don't think it is a good way to starting
learning how things work.  It's better start with small projects,
small improvements, and then gradually extend the scope of the changes
you make, to keep step with the improved understanding of the
infrastructure of the program, while you make changes.

>> The community cannot afford to drive away possible developers by giving
>> them the feeling
>> that there is some inner circle where information flows and where the
>> beginning
>> coder has no entry (sort of: "You don't understand the code yourself? Go
>> playing with
>> your toys then.") I don't think this is the case, although it sometimes
>> seems to be.
> I agree with both of your points.  There is no inner circle that wants to
> hold all knowledge close.  And sometimes it seems that there is.

As it is, the inner circle is very small, and I am a large part of that circle.

Here is the problem from my perspective: I don't have a lot of time to
spend on this. If you want to ask me questions, they had better be few
and very well posed, because I don't have the time or energy to deal
with a barrage of questions, especially if there is no pay-off for me
in terms usable patches to the LilyPond core.

Han-Wen Nienhuys - address@hidden -

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