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Re: convert-ly problem

From: Han-Wen Nienhuys
Subject: Re: convert-ly problem
Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 01:52:32 +0200
User-agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6-1.1.fc4 (X11/20050720)

Laura Conrad wrote:
I don't think that's exactly what I'm asking for.  Of course I love
being able to go back to any LaTeX file I or anyone else has ever
written and use it to figure out how to do something this year.  But
for lilypond, I'd just like to know that when my code becomes useless
someone has:

Realized that they were making the change.
        Discussed the benefits of the change with someone who
        is going to lose by the change.

        Done some kind of cost/benefit analysis that says that the
        change is worth the problems it will cause.

Right now, I don't see that kind of discussion happening, which
suggests that if it's happening anywhere, it isn't on the
lilypond-user or lilypond-devel lists.  And if I'd paid for a feature
that was going to be changed or discontinued, I would certainly want
to be included in such discussions.

Discussing decisions beforehand is a nice democratic tradition, but Lily is not a democracy. If you disagree with a change, you're welcome to pose questions, but I am not going to solicit feedback beforehand. As one of more brilliant math profs explained to me: "if you have a good idea, just do it. Getting permission beforehand is always more trouble than apologizing afterwards"

I have the impression that you think that I break stuff just for the pleasure of it. This is not true. I improve stuff for the pleasure of it, and I do think about compatibility repercussions, but some things just have to be fixed, and better be early than late. "Soft healers make stinking wounds," or so the Dutch saying goes.

To take an example that isn't a major problem for anyone, what led to
the choice of lyrics font in 2.6?  Did anyone who actually publishes
vocal music have any input into that selection, what other fonts were
considered, and why was this one decided on?  It seems to me that

See my other mail.

there are enough lilypond users affected by this that it should have
been discussed.  I know any experienced user who doesn't like it can
probably figure out how to change it to something else, but it is the
public face of what you can do with lilypond, and these hordes of
potential new users you're trying to attract will be making their
decision based on what the default looks like.

Funny that you should mention this. I am not convinced that NCSB is the best font that we have (there is no bold-condensed version, which is what I want for lyrics), but I recall we also had several people applauding the move.

    >> If I
    >> manage to get a working lilypond development environment again,
    >> I'll look at it.

    HN> I recommend you to use the autopackages; they're less fuss to
    HN> install, and they're made from snapshots that are known to
    HN> work - somethign which can't be said of CVS.

I seem to have better luck with CVS.  I haven't reported my
autopackage failures because it seemed that other people were
reporting similar problems, but I will if you think you've fixed all
the problems that were reported before yesterday.

there has been a problem with libstdc++ , which has been fixed in the 2.7 AP; I'm going to release a 2.6.2 with the same fix soonish.

    >> At the moment, lilypond isn't really promising that, or if it is, it
    >> isn't delivering very well.

    HN> Also, "At the moment" is a bit of a misnomer if you are
    HN> complaining of upgrading out of files which you entered over 4
    HN> years ago.

"At the moment" may have been a poor choice of words, but it does seem
that the syntax changes over the last year have been more fundamental
and far-reaching than previous changes.  That is, previously, I've had
to deal with issues like "How do I tell lilypond not to automatically
assume melisma in some circumstances?", now I have to deal with "How

do I find the start of the note entry given that there's no longer a
'\notes' statement?"

Frankly, I don't understand this remark. We just made the \notes mode the default, so it is no longer necessary.

 Han-Wen Nienhuys - address@hidden -

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