bug#40697: 25.3; sort-lines not accepting reverse parameter

[Roland Hughes]

On 4/19/20 11:21 AM, Noam Postavsky wrote:
> Roland Hughes <roland@logikalsolutions.com> writes:
>
> > On 4/19/20 8:08 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > > > Cc: stepnem@gmail.com, 40697@debbugs.gnu.org
> > > > From: Roland Hughes <roland@logikalsolutions.com>
> > > > Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 14:48:19 -0500
> > > >
> > > > The wording in the help text is rather expert friendly. A user coming in
> > > > cold to Emacs is going to interpret "prefix argument" as
> > > >
> > > > [GOLD]-7 REVERSE sort-lines [RETURN]
> > > I can only say that I used the terminology and style that are used
> > > everywhere in our doc strings.
> > Yeah, I know. Not slamming you. Just pointing out the reason more
> > people, especially from non-Linux platforms don't use Emacs is the
> > "expert friendly" doc and culture around it. One must know all of the
> > secret handshakes to join the club. New people, especially from a
> > Windows world, aren't willing to do that. The GUI version of Emacs was
> > a giant step in the right direction. Combined with EDT emulation it
> > can eliminate needing to know most of the super secret handshakes.
> Um, how many users "coming in cold to Emacs" will be coming from EDT, do
> you think?  It seems to me that adding stuff to the docs about EDT style
> args everywhere will only add more confusing "secret handshakes".

Not as much the point as the attached image is not only easier to 
understand and can be printed then taped to the keyboard/monitor.

There are actually still a lot of people using EDT keypad mode in 
various editors both on and off of VMS. One of the reasons JED has such 
a large community is they emulate EDT well. They even manage to make 
NUMLOCK_IS_GOLD work. (Another bug I need to fine because I can do this 
in Windows 10 and Linux with Qt just fine.

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/doc/jed/html/jed006.html

One of the biggest complaints about Emacs on OpenVMS I always here is 
the complete inability to map NumLock to GOLD. Actually it is the 
biggest complaint on all platforms once people get used to keypad 
navigation.

> > Perhaps the "correct" solution here is for EDT or the sort-
> > maintainers to add -reverse versions of each method so they are a
> > single command with a common naming format requiring no super secret
> > handshakes.
> >
> > [GOLD]-7 sort-lines [RETURN]
> >
> > [GOLD]-7 sort-lines-reverse [RETURN]
> >
> > same with numbers and a few of the others. They would just be a
> > wrapper layer, but they would provide an easily digestible interface
> > for those not looking to become one with the internals of Emacs or
> > Linux.
> Not sure where are any EDT maintainers at the moment, but I agree it
> does sound useful for the emulation to be extended in this way.

If I get some free time I may just hack at a version for the book. It 
seems I should be able to create a command called sort-lines-reverse in 
my .emacs file and have it issue sort-lines with the prefix. I should be 
able to remove almost all of the "secret handshakes" for basic editing. 
Was trying to keep the book under 250 pages for printing reasons, but it 
isn't that big of a hit to push into the 250-300 page count price range 
for printing.

Thank you for all of your assistance.

--
Roland Hughes, President
Logikal Solutions
(630)-205-1593

http://www.theminimumyouneedtoknow.com
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