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Re: [Bug-gnubg] random dice generator? hahahaaa

From: Thomas A. Moulton
Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] random dice generator? hahahaaa
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 07:00:49 -0400
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1

If someone "KNOWS" that gnubg (or insert your gaming server here, say fibs.com) 
you can NEVER convince them otherwise.

Our minds attempt to make order out of chaos and that corrupts our memory of 
past events.
The occasional very lucky rolls make us think we are better than reality and 
the overflow
of neutral to poor rolls convince us that the dice are stacked against us.

I run about 25 gunbg bots on fibs some worldclass and the remainder weaker 
and I am told so often how they cheat and they get the dice from FIBS!

People can't even understand that the bot is just like a human player with no 
control over the server.

There is no way to win this, just sit back and laugh...

- just because you are paranoid, it does not mean the world is NOT out to get 
you (or your dice)

On 08/22/2017 05:10 AM, Joseph Heled wrote:

Probably many known ways to convince people there is not cheating. for example

1. Before the math, GNUBG outputs an encrypted file with all "his" dice in a 
2. Match played. crybaby supplies dice (GNUBG adds his "dice" mod 6) to get 
actual dice used.
3. After the match, GNUBG gives crybaby the decryption key.
4. crybaby verifies that  GNUBG did not cheat.


On 22 August 2017 at 20:45, Massimiliano Maini <address@hidden 
<mailto:address@hidden>> wrote:

    I think there's no solution to the "I think GNUBG cheats" problem.
    The kind of person that screams that is the kind of person that:
    1. Plays seven  21-points face-to-face matches against a much better 
player, with totally fair dice rolled by a 3rd person and using whichever 
complex device to avoid dice manipulations.
    2. Loses all of them by a wide margin.
    3. Concludes that the other guy has been incredibly lucky and didn't 
deserve to win at all.

    So you can try to explain that GNUBG can use an external, impartial and 
statistically sound RNG, but I doubt you'd achieve much.

    On 22 August 2017 at 09:34, Chris Wilson <address@hidden 
<mailto:address@hidden>> wrote:

        On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 11:42 PM, Philippe Michel <address@hidden 
<mailto:address@hidden>> wrote:

            On Sat, 19 Aug 2017, tchow wrote:

                The other feature that might be interesting is to allow players 
                receive a handicap, not by having the computer make mistakes, 
but by
                having the dice rigged in their favor.

            IMHO, the only thing worth implementing at the gnubg level would be 
            possiility to call an external RNG provided as a python function.

            I'm not familiar with the python-C interfaces, and currently this 
is used the
            other way, accessing internal gnubg routines and data structures 
            python scripts, but I assume the reverse is possible.

            Then anyone interested enough could use his preferred algorithm, or 
a driver for
            this kind of device : http://ubld.it/truerng_v3

            Simple unbalanced dice (SHG style) would be easy to implement, 
schemes like the
            one described by Timothy would be trickier, needing to evaluate the 
21 rolls
            before choosing one, but certainly doable (we could get rid of the 
            "dice manipulation" option and offer it as an example python code 

        I think there's an easier solution to this well-worn topic and it 
should be easy to implement.

        I have a Windows program called Super_PI that was written in 1995. I've 
kept it around this long because I use it as an objective means of rating 
computer builds and overclocking tweaks. The program generates 33,554,432 
digits of PI. It currently takes 8 minutes and 15 seconds on my system and it 
dumps the output to a text file. Now, strip the digits 0, 7, 8, 9 and you have 
a perfect file of truly random numbers. Any number of methods can be used to 
retrieve a valid roll from the file. Offer the numbers in suitable text blocks 
available as an additional download from the website and trigger a program 
option to use those numbers and it should end the argument.

        Here are some comments that come with the ZIP file.

        "In August 1995, the calculation of pi up to 4,294,960,000 decimal digits 
was succeeded by using a supercomputer at the University of Tokyo. The program was 
written by D.Takahashi and he collaborated with Dr. Y.Kanada at the computer center, the 
University of Tokyo. This record should be the current world record. ( Details is shown 
in the windows help. ) This record-breaking program was ported to personal computer 
environment such as Windows NT and Windows 95. In order to calculate 33.55 million 
digits, it takes within 3 days with Pentium 90MHz, 40MB main memory and 340MB available 
storage. The software is free and the circulation of program is also free!"

        To think it used to take 3 DAYS to generate that many digits! :-)

        The archive also includes some C++ code. Contact me if you wish a copy 
of the program.

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