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Re: Barline scans
From: |
Marnen Laibow-Koser |
Subject: |
Re: Barline scans |
Date: |
Tue, 09 Jan 2007 12:30:03 -0500 |
User-agent: |
Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Macintosh/20041103) |
Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
[...]
Congratulations, you found some lightly printed editions.
Then that was the luck of the draw. I basically chose a few books more
or less at random, and added some editions whose aesthetics I like (such
as Henle). I will be trying to enlarge my sample and seeing if the
numbers change.
Or should I say: Congratulations, you found some heavily printed
editions. :)
I am aware
that lightweight prints are (becoming) more common than heavyweight ones.
Then this may be current practice. In that case, shouldn't Lilypond
keep up with the times?
Possibly you are used to that light look, which is fine.
Not at all. I love Henle's engraving, which is quite dark. Lilypond's
dark look is OK with me in general. I object to that one point of
barlines that are so much thicker than the staff lines.
But this is
not the (default) style that we try to mimick. I am sorry if you
think this makes LilyPond prints ugly, but it seems to me that you
stand alone in this.
I wonder. However, I'll bet that most people who think that Lilypond
output is ugly just don't bother to use the program or say anything. I
am trying to offer constructive suggestions so that Lilypond can come
closer to its stated goals.
I have put up two scans at lilypond.org/~janneke/scans, to show you
what we mean. You may want to read our Essay on engraving, it has
something to say about blackness as well.
I have read the essay. There are large parts that I agree with and
large parts that I disagree with.
Peters
stem (=hair): 11px
staff line: 13px
bar line: 24px (220 % of hair)
Baerenreiter
staff (=hair): 10px
stem: 12 px
bar line: 22 px (220 % of hair)
Interesting. OK, Bärenreiter and Peters are next on my list of editions
to scan.
The funny thing is, that LilyPond has
staff (=hair): 1
stem: 1.3 * hair
bar: 1.9 * hair
so it seems that in our default look our bar lines are not as heavy as
Baerenreiter's.
Then perhaps the results have to do with the overall look of the page.
It is possible that in Bärenreiter's editions, something *else* is heavy
enough that the barlines do not appear objectionable by contrast.
[...]
Well, we will also have to have a very good look at our Baerenreiter's
instead of trying to please this one person with his quest for thinner
bar lines. Note that Marnen has stated explicitly that he thinks that
thick bar lines are ugly, so his input might be biassed.
I'm biased because I have a preference? That's ridiculous. I didn't
even *know* I thought thick barlines were ugly until I saw Lilypond's
use of them. And obviously, that's not the only factor: I don't think
Bärenreiter or Peters are ugly editions.
Compromising
into making our bar lines a bit thinner is not going to make him happy
anyway.
What makes you say that? That's also ridiculous.
If we want to mimick Baerenreiter, my quick scan suggests we should
tune it up from 1.9 to 2.2, but we'd have to compare good printouts
with the original.
As I recall, Feta looks very little like Bärenreiter notation. If you
want to mimic Bärenreiter, perhaps an overhaul of the font is in order
-- after all, all the graphic details are interdependent to some degree.
Jan.
Best,
Marnen
- Re: Barline scans, (continued)
- Re: Barline scans, Jan Nieuwenhuizen, 2007/01/09
- Re: Barline scans, Werner LEMBERG, 2007/01/09
- Re: Barline scans, Jan Nieuwenhuizen, 2007/01/09
- Re: Barline scans, Han-Wen Nienhuys, 2007/01/09
- Re: Barline scans, Jan Nieuwenhuizen, 2007/01/09
- Re: Barline scans, Han-Wen Nienhuys, 2007/01/09
- Re: Barline scans, Jan Nieuwenhuizen, 2007/01/09
- Re: Barline scans, Marnen Laibow-Koser, 2007/01/09
- Re: Barline scans, Jan Nieuwenhuizen, 2007/01/10
- Re: Barline scans, Marnen Laibow-Koser, 2007/01/09
- Re: Barline scans,
Marnen Laibow-Koser <=
- Re: Barline scans, Jan Nieuwenhuizen, 2007/01/10
- Re: Barline scans, Marnen Laibow-Koser, 2007/01/10
- Re: Barlines are too thick, Han-Wen Nienhuys, 2007/01/08
- Re: Barlines are too thick, Jan Nieuwenhuizen, 2007/01/08