Re: NSToolbar (was Re: Portability/Compatability betweenGNUstep<---> Cocoa...)

[Philippe C.D. Robert]

Hi,

Jeff Teunissen wrote:
> > Btw. somebody already pointed out that toolbars have been part of the
> > NeXT Interface ever since (even NSToolbar as private class)
>  
> Both of them (two people -- Phillippe Robert, and Greg Casamento -- not one)
> were wrong, and as I said earlier, I don't have a problem with toolbars
> being in GNUstep.
>
> To expand on that first sentence:
>
> NeXTstep did not have toolbars.
> OPENSTEP did not have toolbars.
> In the OPENSTEP days, NeXT had a private framework that implemented a class
> called NSToolbar, which was nothing like the class that we know of today as
> NSToolBar. NSToolbar provided Mail v4 and Project Builder with their
> toolbar-like icon lists, which were: 1. not user-configurable, and 2. just
> another view, which is the reasonable way to implement them in a NeXTish UI.

Sorry but we are not wrong, you are - you even contradict yourself above 
by saying:

"OPENSTEP did not have toolbars" vs. "...NeXT had a private framework 
that implemented a class called NSToolbar..."

BTW as you note, the NEXTSTEP GUI made use of toolbars, PB.app or 
Mail.app (didn't I type this days ago...uhm). The fact that these early 
toolbars were not as powerful as todays version does not mean they did 
not exist!

Anyway, as many here (including you and me, it seems :) do agree the 
problem is not "to have or not to have toolbars" (as UI elements) but 
whether GNUstep should be compatible with Cocoa by providing a NSToolbar 
compliant API or not. This question can IMHO only be answered once 
forever if the core maintainers decide and clearly state that the goal 
of this project is to produce a 100% Cocoa clone, or alternatively that 
this is about OPENSTEP/OpenStep and Cocoa is not part of it. If the 
latter is the case it would also be consequent to remove all parts and 
changes of GNUstep which have been introduced to the sources only 
because of Cocoa.

What clearly does not work though is the current situation, which always 
causes infinite discussions whenever a new feature is about to be added 
(or not), esp. since these discussions are rarely rational but often in 
an unacceptable style filled with rants and insults.

cheers,

-Phil
--
Philippe C.D. Robert
http://www.nice.ch/~phip/