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Re: Camaelon <-> GNUstep

From: phil taylor
Subject: Re: Camaelon <-> GNUstep
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 09:22:50 +1000

On Sun, 2006-09-03 at 20:56 +0100, Richard Frith-Macdonald wrote:
> On 2 Sep 2006, at 20:25, Gregory John Casamento wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > Sorry to reply late to this thread... :)
> >
> > -- Richard Frith-MacDonald wrote:
> >> I *like* the default scheme much more than other systems... so I find
> >> the argument about changing the look to attract developers very
> >> unconvincing.  However, providing screenshots of alternative color
> >> schemes won't do any harm and might help.
> >
> > Here's a reply from one of the people from my blog right after I  
> > announced nib compatibility (I hope the original poster doesn't  
> > mind, but it was posted to my blog publically):
> >
> > "Wow, very cool. The one thing that always bugged me about GNUstep,  
> > and the one thing that alwawys stops me from using it is the UI  
> > style; hardly up-to-date by anyone's standards. Are there any plans  
> > to create a more modern-looking theme? Not necessarily an OS X  
> > clone, but something that's a little more visually pleasing...
> >
> > This could also be the one thing holding GNUStep from becoming  
> > mainstream, IMHO."
> >
> > This is the most frequent criticism I hear concerning GNUstep.     
> > I've heard it from two companies that were planning to port their  
> > apps to GNUstep.  I also heard it from another company which wanted  
> > to create new apps for GNUstep by itself (and perhaps port from  
> > GNUstep to Mac OS at a later date).   I also hear it from people  
> > whom I show GNUstep to occasionally.  While many like the look,  
> > some don't.  Unfortunately people will almost always gravitate to  
> > something because it's attractive, in spite of what it's technical  
> > merits underneath might or might not be.
> >
> > GNUstep, I believe. needs a theming system which is flexible and  
> > extensible.   This will allow people to make new themes that make  
> > GNUstep look like whatever they want it to.  I would, personally,  
> > prefer a significantly updated NeXT look to be the default theme  
> > (think about what NeXT's UI might look like, if NeXT hadn't been  
> > bought by Apple).
> Just for the record  ... my position on theming in GNUstep has  
> *always* been that it's a good idea, and I believe that all core  
> GNustep developers have held that position for a long, long time.   I  
> have (some considerable time ago) merged in horizontal menu support  
> for a more MacOS-like theme, and offered to assit/work-on merging  
> camealon code into gui.
> The debate/argument whenever this issue arises is because we all have  
> different ideas on how much difference theming is likely to make to  
> the appeal of GNUstep, and what the default theme should be.
> IMO it is stupid to argue about these things as any argument gives  
> some people the chance to interpret fragments of the argument as  
> being against theming, and arguments about these issues are entirely  
> hypthetical until we have good theming in place anyway.
> 1. we need the theme mechanism in the gui
> 2. we need good tools for rapid/easy development of new themes
> 3. we need a selection of ready made themes
> Once that has been done we will
> a) find out if it encourages lots of new developers to sign up
> b) be in a position to argue about changing the default theme if we  
> really want to.

Themes would make a lot of difference to the appeal. Isnt that what a
GUI is all about? Looks?

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