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Re: Proposals for purposes and usage examples

From: Eduardo Ochs
Subject: Re: Proposals for purposes and usage examples
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2023 21:24:16 -0300

On Fri, 6 Jan 2023 at 16:47, Jean Louis <> wrote:
> (...)

Hi Jean,

can Hyperbole be used to "automate" downloading a source package and
compiling it? You said in a previous e-mail that you found its docs
well written... if I remember correctly I found them so confusing that
it took me two evenings just to learn how to use the {...} buttons
that execute sequences of keys - so I know very little about

How would you translate this to Hyperbole? First run the script here
to make sure that you have a copy of the source code of that version
of Lua - it's just 200KB,

  (find-psne-links "";)

and then run this second part with <f8>s:

• (eepitch-shell)
• (eepitch-kill)
• (eepitch-shell)
  rm -Rfv /tmp/lua-5.1.5/
  mkdir   /tmp/lua-5.1.5/
  tar  -C /tmp/ -xvzf $S/http/
  cd      /tmp/lua-5.1.5/

  find * -name '*.[ch]' | sort >
  etags $(<
  make linux test local 2>&1 | tee omltl
  ./bin/lua -e 'print(2+3)'

To be more precise: how would you use Hyperbole to "automate" that
second part?

Again: I know very little about Hyperbole. Basically, I know that rsw
repeats all the time that "Hyperbole keeps everything simple", but it
wasn't simple for me.

> I understand your reasoning for downloads, but that does not make it
> easier or more convenient. Internet is almost free in Europe, and
> difficult to access in the majority of planet Earth.
> I would say to always first use text, images, and then video.

I know that for most people in Uganda internet is very expensive, but
how is it for you?  I asked you to either watch the part of this one
that starts at 13:10 or to read its subtitles starting from 13:10...
that video is 19:21 long, and its .mp4 is 56MB...

  Info:  (find-1stclassvideo-links "eev2019")
  Play:  (find-eev2019video  "0:00")
         (find-eev2019video "13:10" "Demo: patching xpdf")
  LSubs: (find-1stclassvideolsubs "eev2019")
         (find-1stclassvideolsubs "eev2019" "13:10")
         (find-anggwget "SUBTITLES/emacsconf2019.lua")
         (find-anggwget "SUBTITLES/emacsconf2019.lua" "13:10")

> But never video without text first.

Some of the beginners that I convinced to try eev were students that
had (sort of) never seen a terminal in their lives. They had to start
with a video.

> I was the test person, I read that introduction and is not enough. I
> can't gain understanding.

Here it goes, in capitals:

  BY READING!!!!!!

  AND MY TIME!!!!!!!!!!!

Either try more "Try it"s in the tutorial or watch the demo in my
presentation in the EmacsConf2019. Compare the situation with learning
what is a Turing machine in the early 80s versus playing a
coin-operated video games in the early 80s - Donkey Kong, say, or Qix.
It is VERY HARD to imagine that a video game can be fun, and how fun
it can be, by just learning what a Turing machine can do and trying to
imagine a video game, or by reading an _objective_ description of what
a video game _is_ or what a video game _does_.

The slides of my presentation at the EmacsConf 2019, that are in the
second link below,

tell a bit of how discovering Emacs - and eval-last-sexp, of course -
was a visceral experience for me, very similar to how certain video
games, and some vinyls and CDs, were. The part of the video in which I
present those slides is more fun because I scream at some points, but
I think that you will prefer to just read the slides quickly.

> I understand it is for you. Though it is too general. Automating
> everything is good in general, but does not tell what eev does.

Then: eev doesn't do anything by itself. Emacs comes with C-x C-e,
i.e., eval-last-sexp, that is incredibly powerful, but that power is
not immediately obvious to everyone. Eev makes that power slightly
more accessible.

I've met at least two persons - my sister and one ex-internet friend -
who thought that a monochrome screen with an unfontified sexp was
something so repulsive that they couldn't stare at that for more than
a few seconds with complaining or running away. Eev is certainly not
for them - and so, by consequence, eev is not for everyone.

> Executable log -- I do not understand as there is no clear example.
> If it is log, there must be preceding action. Action example is not
> explained.

In the demo at the end of my presentation at the EmacsConf 2019 I did
not show how I "record" executable notes, only how I "play them back".
In the video below, that I subtitled just a few days ago, and that is
18:22 long and takes 56MB, I show almost in real time how I record
executable notes that are made only of elisp hyperlinks:

   Info:  (find-1stclassvideo-links "2021workshop3")
   Play:  (find-2021workshop3video "0:00")
          (find-2021workshop3video "4:56" "demo")
   LSubs: (find-1stclassvideolsubs  "2021workshop3")
          (find-1stclassvideolsubs  "2021workshop3" "4:56")
          (find-anggwget "SUBTITLES/2021-workshop-3.lua")
          (find-anggwget "SUBTITLES/2021-workshop-3.lua" "4:56")

> Is it right that action must precede the creation of log?

Yes. But I've learned how create logs almost in real time - this is
explained here:

  (find-here-links-intro "1. Alternating between \"task\" and \"notes\"")

> Exercise
> --------
> 1. Provide me three actions that you do
> 2. Show how is executable log created for those actions
> 3. Show how to execute the log and replay the actions

Start by the ones above - I need to know which ones are clear and
which ones are not before giving you more complex executable logs and
instructions in text...

  More soon,

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