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Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 9ce1d38: Use curved quotes in core elisp diagno

From: Alan Mackenzie
Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 9ce1d38: Use curved quotes in core elisp diagnostics
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:42:11 +0000
User-agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12)

Hello, Paul.

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 12:25:18PM -0700, Paul Eggert wrote:
> Alan Mackenzie wrote:

> > Well, as I said, I edit texts with non-ascii characters frequently, and
> > don't experience any particular difficulty with them.  Having to type in
> > a decimal/hex code for a non-working character (or, even worse, having
> > to look up an input method for it) just stops me in my tracks.  An
> > example is when I reply to Óscar, "Ó" being outside my working character
> > set.

> >> Emacs currently makes it harder to deal with non-ASCII and/or
> >> non-working characters than it could.

> > Could you give an example of this (pertaining, preferably, to non-ascii
> > working characters)?

> You gave an example in your previous paragraph, where you're stopped in your 
> tracks if you have to type "Ó" into Emacs.

OK, but I can't really see the connection between this (and what Chad
Brown was unhappy about) and the replacement in our source code of ` and
' by curlies.  Nobody having to type "Ó" on a Spanish keyboard layout
would have any trouble.

> > Whatever problem that might be, the solution surely cannot be
> > artificially to inflict it on ourselves.

> There's nothing artificial about using a character to represent itself in 
> typical usage in a doc string or a diagnostic.  What's artificial is 
> requiring 
> users to laboriously type and read ASCII-only circumlocutions instead.

There is nothing laborious about hitting key 41 or key 40.  Anybody who
finds this laborious will not be programming in lisp for very long.

There is nothing indirect about using ` and ' to "stand for themselves",
in quoting things.  I've never heard of an Emacs hacker experiencing
difficulty reading things quoted `like this'.

On the contrary, holding down <AltGr> while typing on the numeric
keypad, successively 2, 0, 1, 8 or 2, 0, 1, 9 is laborious indeed, even
assuming that these codes have been retained in memory.  For that is
what a user with a normal keyboard layout, outside of Emacs, will be
forced to do.  As we know there are workarounds inside Emacs to help
with this.

Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

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