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Re: use-package.el -> Emacs core

From: John Wiegley
Subject: Re: use-package.el -> Emacs core
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 10:15:05 -0800
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (darwin)

>>>>> João Távora <address@hidden> writes:

>> (use-package python-mode :load-path "site-lisp/python-mode" :mode "\\.py$")

> But, if using package.el (or el-get), I don't need to write this, right?
> It's already setup by python.el and by whatever method I used to install it.

Correct. In fact, I'd _prefer_ it if the user didn't have to touch use-package
at all, and could get by with package.el and customize. use-package is the
"next step", after those two.

> Can we have an example of real-world third-party emacs packages (perhaps one
> in (m)ELPA and another one not on any package repository) and a fair
> comparison of the different alternatives there are for setting it up? I
> haven't seen any convincing examples, but I'm sure you can come up with
> some.
> I can help include other third-party alternatives like `el-get' for instance
> in that comparison.

The only alternatives we need to consider right now is with and without
use-package.el -- for details not taken care of by package.el. el-get is
neither in core nor ELPA, so that knowledge doesn't help this discussion.

> Then by all means use it :). But should I have to learn it too?

Not necessarily. There are plenty of areas of Emacs that you don't have to
learn, but that doesn't prohibit them from being in Emacs. If you see a bug
dealing with use-package and don't want to handle it, don't.

> In this sense, the particular merits of each particular feature could be
> used to contribute to improving existing functionality, or to add new
> functionality that helps everybody, not just fans of use-package. Wouldn't
> that satisfy you? Wouldn't that be easier than introducing and documenting a
> whole new way of configuring packages, something that is a super-central
> pillar of Emacs?

It's not a "new way" of configuring packages. It's a WAY period. The
alternative, beyond package and customize, is to learn enough Emacs Lisp to
manually configure the package yourself. This is beyond many users' comfort
area, as I've learned from helping people with their Emacs setups.

I do want use-package in core, although it should probably be in ELPA for
25.1, until we flesh out what will happen to bind-key, a pillar feature. It
should also be documented as an official way of handling more complex
configuration scenarios. Such documentation would also, to answer Oleh's
concern, reference the various Emacs Lisp topics one would need to learn to
understand the logic beneath the sugar.


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