Re: [Emacs-diffs] scratch/widen-less a4ba846: Replace prog-widen with consolidating widen calls

[Eli Zaretskii]

On December 5, 2017 9:08:56 PM GMT+00:00, Ingo Lohmar <address@hidden> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 05 2017 20:48 (+0000), Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > To make myself clear: I'd like to see your changes land in a way
> that as much as possible doesn't remove prog-indentation-context
> except where there's a clear and present contradiction.
> 
> Previously I dabbled with mmm-mode and even maintained an unpublished
> fork to fix some shortcomings.  Therefore I followed this and the
> related threads with quite some interest.
> 
> Apologies if I misunderstood or if this is just noise (in which case
> simply ignore my message), but I have only seen this point briefly
> raised in passing, and it appears to be very important:
> 
> 1. I gathered that from what is known now, prog-indentation-context
>    cannot provide all that which multiple major mode frameworks
>    need/want from Emacs core.
> 
> 2. Also, it is not orthogonal, but rather incompatible with all other
>    proposals (be they concrete or vague) discussed thus far.
> 
> So if we really want to facilitate mmm-like frameworks (which is
> wonderful and surely a great thing to do), prog-indentation-context
> will
> have to be removed whenever that happens.
> 
> Since it's not in any released version yet, it seems obvious to me
> that
> it should be removed right now, or else it will be "in the wild".  And
> then it will be much more awkward to remove it in the next release
> (and
> I would assume that you will strongly object to removing it then).
> 
> What am I missing here?

My conclusions from reviewing the discussions and the proposed code changes, as 
they appear on Dmitry's branch, were that prog-indentation-context is a 
super-set of what is needed for MMM and similar frameworks.  As I understand, 
Dmitry submits that the extra features are not needed and have never been used, 
but I haven't yet heard any arguments to the effect that 
prog-indentation-context _contradicts_ MMM.  Which is why I still think it'd be 
prudent not to remove it, at least not yet, because the extra features it 
provides might be useful, and because the code is part of the development 
sources for more than 2 years.