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Re: "Why is emacs so square?"

From: Joseph Garvin
Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?"
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 10:34:24 -0500

I think part of the problem with things like the menu bar is that if you're using emacs at all you are demonstrating a willingness to tolerate:

* A UI that doesn't look or behave like any other application
* Keyboard shortcuts inconsistent with every other application
* A bizarre ancient vocabulary inconsistent with every other application. e.g. no Microsoft word user has ever considered themselves to have opened a "buffer". They open "files". They move "windows" around, not "frames." They cut and paste not kill and yank, etc.

You are basically making a commitment to being or becoming a power user. I certainly would not have put up with it if I didn't think it was going to save me a lot of time as a software developer (and it does, everyday). I doubt anyone invests the mental effort to deal with learning emacs nowadays unless this is their goal. If you just want to do "casual" text editing emacs is a very weird choice in 2020.

If you're a new user the idea that seeing kill and yank in the menu bar as options helps discoverablity doesn't really hold when already nothing is named the way you expect or acts the way you expect. If you're an experienced user, then I would guess that like me C-h f,v,k and blog posts are 99% of your discoverablity experience.

On Thu, Apr 16, 2020, 9:58 AM Drew Adams <address@hidden> wrote:
> I'd like to remind all of us that
> there's a lot of "propaganda" out there telling everyone to turn off
> GUI features such as the menu bar and the tool bar.  The network is
> full of personal init files that "proudly" do that, and forums like
> Reddit are full of such advice to every newbie who asks about
> configuring their Emacs.  It is hard to be enthusiastic about making
> these features more modern when the community seems to be divided on
> whether they should at all be present.  IMO, we should first get our
> act together and decide whether these features are important, and then
> speak up according to those decisions when we see advice to the
> contrary.


And count me as one vote for the menu-bar being
important, especially for discoverability.  The
tool-bar is less important, IMO, but I'd still
vote to keep it.

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