[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey
From: |
Thibaut Verron |
Subject: |
Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey |
Date: |
Sat, 17 Oct 2020 06:50:06 +0200 |
Le sam. 17 oct. 2020 à 06:21, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> a écrit :
>
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
> > > We could turn this argument around and ask why the developers who
> > > maintain MELPA don't remove `2-3' packages that promote non-free
> > > software.
>
> > I sincerely hope it doesn't happen. Those packages might rely on
> > non-free software, but they are still packages that some users find
> > valuable or even vital, and that they would want to find somewhere
> > else if not available on Melpa. Removing them from Melpa would only
> > move the "problem".
>
> I think you have picked up your values (your basis of judging what is
> good or bad) from what most people think, and that you took for granted
> we have the same values. But we don't.
> The goal of the GNU Project is not simply "to help users." It is to
> help users _escape from nonfree software_ (des logiciels pas libres), and
> ultimately to build a world where all software is free.
I gave my reasons above. It's not just about "helping users", it's
about helping them move more of their activities to the free world.
Those packages (helm-lastpass, lastpass) are helping users who already
use lastpass at the moment do exactly that.
> Nonfree
> software is an injustice -- nonfree software subjugates users.
> Our goal is to _eradicate it_.
Again, the same question: by arranging for links to such software to
be removed everywhere? Or by offering free alternatives?
Incidentally, I see a lot of effort so far discussing how evil
helm-lastpass and lastpass are, and how to get them moved to obscure
parts of the internet. What I don't see is efforts discussing free
alternatives.
As far as I know the only free competitor for lastpass is bitwarden,
why is nobody talking about developing an emacs interface to bitwarden
and educating lastpass users about it? Isn't _that_ what the GNU
project is about, rather than making it as hard as possible to find
the software we don't like?
> You, thinking based on your values, seem to consider that a good
> thing. You draw the conclusion that it would be unfortunate if Melpa
> deleted the Lisp package which refers to that nonfree program.
>
> We, based on the values we have followed since the 1980s say that it
> is bad that someone is using a nonfree program, that we wish the
> nonfree program did not exist, and that we hope someone will liberate
> its users soon by developing a free replacement for it. We would
> be very glad if Melpa deleted that Lisp package.
Me too I guess, once and not before the free replacement exists. As
long as it doesn't, it means that the aforementioned users will be
trapped in the non-free ecosystem because they can't use their
password manager in Emacs (or IceCat). How is that helping the cause
of free software?
> We tend to expect that people joining in GNU Project discussion lists
> are familiar with the basic ideas and values of the GNU Project. But
> this is not always the case. It would be good if we could recognize
> this sooner and educate people about the basic ideas of the GNU
> Project sooner.
I am familiar with the ideas and values of the GNU Project, and to a
large extent I agree with them. My points of disagreement lie in
implementation details and priorities.
Framing those disagreements as a lack of education is demeaning.
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, (continued)
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Alfred M. Szmidt, 2020/10/16
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Thibaut Verron, 2020/10/16
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Alfred M. Szmidt, 2020/10/16
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Thibaut Verron, 2020/10/16
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Alfred M. Szmidt, 2020/10/16
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Thibaut Verron, 2020/10/16
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Alfred M. Szmidt, 2020/10/16
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Thibaut Verron, 2020/10/16
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Alfred M. Szmidt, 2020/10/16
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Richard Stallman, 2020/10/17
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey,
Thibaut Verron <=
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Jean Louis, 2020/10/17
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Thibaut Verron, 2020/10/17
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Jean Louis, 2020/10/17
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Richard Stallman, 2020/10/18
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Jean Louis, 2020/10/18
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Richard Stallman, 2020/10/18
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Jean Louis, 2020/10/18
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Richard Stallman, 2020/10/18
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Thibaut Verron, 2020/10/18
- Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey, Richard Stallman, 2020/10/20