Re: python minor-mode

[Barry Warsaw]

I’m sorry that GitLab gave you so much trouble, TV.  It really shouldn’t have 
been that painful!  I use both GL and GH for various projects, but I tend to 
prefer GL.  That said, Andreas has been the real maintainer of python-mode.el 
for the last many years, so I support whatever he prefers to do.

I may give python.el another look and keep notes on where I find differences or 
frictions.

-Barry

> On Apr 1, 2022, at 06:55, T.V Raman <raman@google.com> wrote:
> 
> Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org> writes:
> 
> 
> Agreed on all counts Barry!
> 
> The straw that broke my python-mode-camel's back was when I ran into
> unexplainable bugs that I couldn't explain to myself because of lack of
> documentation in the melpa install of python-mode, and gitlab's
> insistence that I needed a gitlab account before I could even checkout
> the code; at that point I just moved on. Now both of these assertions
> could be a consequnce of my not having looked hard enough, and perhaps
> if one visits Gitlab with an all-dancing JS-powered browser it might be
> a different experience ...
> 
> With Github I've developed workflows where I entirely avoid the need to
> use a JS-powered browser and perhaps the same is possible with gitlab if
> one makes the investment ... but again, it was sufficiently hard to not
> make it over the line given the now somewhat minor feature gaps between
> python.el and python-mode.el.
> 
>> Hi TV, good to hear from you too.  Hi also to Stefan and Andreas.
>> 
>> I agree it would be good to find a way to merge the functionality of
>> the two modes, but of course it’s more than that because the variables
>> and settings would also have to merge.  It would be a huge bit of
>> work, and definitely not something that I would have any bandwidth
>> for.  python-mode.el’s been around for 30 years now, almost as long as
>> Python itself.  It’s sad that these two modes have existed
>> independently for so long.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> -Barry
>> 
>>> On Mar 21, 2022, at 09:09, T.V Raman <raman@google.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org> writes:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi Barry,
>>> 
>>> Good to hear from you after a long time.
>>> 
>>> I recall that at one time, there was a similar split between emacs'
>>> built-in C-mode vs the much-enhanced cc-mode  that you and others had
>>> developed; eventually cc-mode and its goodness landed in Emacs.I'm
>>> optimistically hoping for the same for Python:-)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm sure there are still differences between python.el and
>>> python-mode.el though in the last 10 years or so, python.el has grown
>>> significantly in size.
>>> 
>>> I mostly use elpy to pull together all the various emacs/python goodies
>>> and after getting very confused between python.el and python-mode.el
>>> eventually uninstalled python-mode.el so that I could avoid getting
>>> tripped up; for better or worse, I've not noticed too much difference
>>> and it's actually nice to have one less thing to worry about when being
>>> surprized by some unexpected behavior.
>>> 
>>> With respect to code formatting etc, I now achieve that via external
>>> tools like yapf that elpy wrappers, and have the formatting operation
>>> happen on each save.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> I haven’t looked at python.el in a long while but last time I did, it was 
>>>> not PEP 8 compliant.
>>>> 
>>>> -Barry
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 21, 2022, at 06:37, T.V Raman <raman@google.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@online.de> writes:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The bigger question:
>>>>> 
>>>>> There were clearly reasons for the existence of these two in the past
>>>>> --- python.el and python-mode.el -- do those reasons still exist. They
>>>>> each have almost similar functionality -- and it may be worthwhile for
>>>>> some wise heads to come together and create a single, consolidated
>>>>> python package for emacs.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I can vouch from my own use that this split causes massive confusion.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Currently, both python.el and python-mode.el define a minor-mode
>>>>>> called "python-mode". Which may create some confusion. Wouldn't it be
>>>>>> more natural if both files provide modes according to their filename?
>>>>>> I.e. python.el should establish "python" as minor-mode, python-mode.el
>>>>>> sends "python-mode".
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Andreas
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> 
>>>>> --Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
>>>>> ♆ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> --Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
>>> ♇ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮
>> 
> 
> --
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> --Raman(I Search, I Find, I Misplace, I Research)
> ♈ Id: kg:/m/0285kf1  🦮

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