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Re: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package

From: Eli Zaretskii
Subject: Re: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2022 19:16:09 +0300

> From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com>
> Cc: theophilusx@gmail.com,  acm@muc.de,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2022 23:15:16 +0800
> >> There are 3 main purposes of remappings in Org:
> >
> > I'm sure there are good reasons for that.  My point is that such
> > remappings effectively force the user to re-learn the commands he/she
> > is very familiar with.  So it's a non-trivial burden.
> Not really. The remappings usually intend to re-implement the usual
> expected Emacs behavior inside Org. It's just that it is not always
> possible using the built-in functions. Hence, we implement a layer on
> top.
> There should not be anything to learn with regard to remapped commands
> given that Org defaults are not changed.

Are you sure this is always true?  There are several dozens of
remapped commands; did you audit all of them?

And anyway, even if what you say is 110% true, how am I as a user to
know that up front?  I'm used to read the documentation of every
command I don't already know by heart, so when faced with such massive
remapping, I have quite some reading to do before I can feel myself at

And please note that, unlike Alan, I _do_ use Org, just not very
often, at least these days.  So what I'm sating doesn't come from the
POV of an anti-Org user.  I _want_ Org to be easier and less demanding
to use.

> > The difference is that we had years or decades to get used to the
> > Emacs defaults, and once Org is turned on in a buffer, one has a lot
> > of new stuff to get used to.  Unless Org is used constantly, you will
> > forget most of those changes till the next time, so this re-learning
> > experience will be repeated every time.
> Isn't it the same for any other major mode?

No, not IME.  Show me another general-purpose editing mode that
defines so many key bindings.  The only modes that get close are those
where text is read-only, so normal editing is impossible anyway.  And
even those leave alone basic movement commands, like C-S-<up> which
Alan mentioned.

> > It isn't a catastrophe, of course, but we should recognize this as an
> > issue, especially if many of the bindings aren't needed.
> I am not sure what you mean by aren't needed.

Ask Tim Cross: the claim that most of the 230 bindings I counted
aren't needed comes from him.

> There is no doubt that you do not need most of the bindings just to
> navigate Org files or do basic editing. You do not need to learn those
> other bindings either.

Then why bind them by default? why not wait until I actually need that
functionality?  If that's hard or impossible to detect automatically,
let the user say so.  For example, I could envision a minor mode that
enables Org-Babel and binds the corresponding commands to keys.

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