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Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages
From: |
Gerd Möllmann |
Subject: |
Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages |
Date: |
Fri, 11 Nov 2022 14:01:56 +0100 |
User-agent: |
Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) |
João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com> writes:
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2022, 09:35 Gerd Möllmann <gerd.moellmann@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't agree. Before shorthands, a symbol had one name, after, it can
> have many.
>
> This is incorrect. You're confusing the text manifestation of a symbol
> in a Lisp form before it is read (as in CL:READ) with the symbol
> itself, which has only one name. This didn't and couldn't change with
> shorthands.
Then let me try to express myself clearer. (I hoped to get away with
something more informal.)
Before shorthands there was a 1:1 correspondence between the printed
representation of a symbol and the symbol you get when reading the
printed representation. Symbol-name returned a string that's the
printed representation. (And let's please not also consider escaping in
general, print-escape and print1 vs princ and such.)
After shorthands, there is a printed representation in the code, which
when read gives you a symbol with a name that can be different from the
printed representation. In fact, many printed represenations exist,
theoretically mapping to the same symbol.
If that's not changing semantics, I don't know. Changing the semantics
of symbols, because of the different meaning of what symbol-name
returns.
> Deciding to use it not use a shorthand is no different from deciding
> to use or not use package qualification for a symbol in CL packages.
I wasn't talking about CL packages at all, just before/after shorthands.
>
> Neither changes the name of a symbol, just the manifestation is
> different. If you force them to be the same thing, then no namespacing
> symbol is possible at all
>
> If you conflate symbol name and symbol designation/manifestation in
> source files , you'll have problems implementing any package system
> (CL, shorthands, whatever) and you confuse people trying to understand
> any Lisp package system, i.e. you confuse this discussion. Let's try
> to avoid that :)
Who's confused? Anyone? :-)
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, (continued)
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, Juanma Barranquero, 2022/11/23
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, Gerd Möllmann, 2022/11/23
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, Matt Armstrong, 2022/11/22
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, Eli Zaretskii, 2022/11/22
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, Matt Armstrong, 2022/11/22
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, Gerd Möllmann, 2022/11/23
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, Eli Zaretskii, 2022/11/23
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, Richard Stallman, 2022/11/10
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, Gerd Möllmann, 2022/11/11
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, João Távora, 2022/11/11
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages,
Gerd Möllmann <=
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, João Távora, 2022/11/11
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, Gerd Möllmann, 2022/11/11
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, João Távora, 2022/11/12
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, Gerd Möllmann, 2022/11/12
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, Richard Stallman, 2022/11/11
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, Eduardo Ochs, 2022/11/05
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, Michael Albinus, 2022/11/06
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, João Távora, 2022/11/06
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, Richard Stallman, 2022/11/10
- Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages, João Távora, 2022/11/11