Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Proposal to revise FSDG to exclude SaaSS-only software clients

[Jean Louis]

Welcome Bill,

* bill-auger <bill-auger@peers.community> [2021-04-11 17:59]:
> im glad you took this discussion to the FSDG mailing list - this
> is the appropriate venue to discuss such matters
> 
> you should not single-out parabola though, WRT the telegram
> clients - nearly every distro distributes telegram clients,
> including trisquel, guix, and pureos - the purpose of this
> work-group is to make decisions which affect all FSDG distros -
> if this work-group concludes that some program is unfit,
> parabola would remove it immediately, and the others should too
> 
> before such a general consensus is reached, it is best to avoid
> asking any one distro to remove some software, which the others
> would still have, because the others were not included in the
> conversation

It would be best, but I am using Parabola and not those others. I was
surprised, and now getting more surprised to discover it is also in
Guix, and you say in Trisquel and PureOS.

And not only that, there are probably other similar software by the
same principle, for example, purple-skyweb in Parabola. I can bet
there are other such software.

The essence of the problem is:

- that we have FSF statements on surveillance, PRISM and decentralized
  Internet;

- that such statements are not aligned with the FSDG;

- that FSF endorsed distributions that propagate software that submit
  to surveillance, PRISM and centralized Internet

And how many times? How many times did users download all that
software?

> also, there is no reason to single-out that one program - the
> very same argument could be made for many programs, such as
> 'hub' and 'weboob' - i think you could serve your own argument
> better by generalizing it, and removing focus from any one
> program or service

Definitely, and I have already well defined myself. I hope you spot it
better, I have been speaking of "client software that is freely
licensed which sole purpose is to communicate to proprietary SaaSS,
whereby users have not get freedom to install their own server side
free softwar".

Examples taken from Parabola are there because I have not get other
distributions to analyze them, but if Hyperbola have already made good
decisions, and Parabola follows, then others will join.

Though best would be that FSF makes correction to FSDG guidelines.

Here is one contradiction in Parabola:

* kopete
Repository      : libre
Version         : 19.12.3-1.parabola1
Description     : Instant Messenger, without nonfree Skype support
Architecture    : x86_64
URL             : https://kde.org/applications/internet/kopete/

* bitlbee-libpurple
Repository      : pcr
Version         : 3.5.1-1
Description     : Brings instant messaging (XMPP, MSN, Yahoo!, AIM, ICQ, 
Twitter) to IRC, without nonfree Skype support. libpurple enabled.

We can see "without nonfree Skype support"

but then we can see other packages:

* purple-skypeweb
Repository      : community
Version         : 1.7-2
Description     : SkypeWeb Plugin for Pidgin
Architecture    : x86_64
URL             : https://github.com/EionRobb/skype4pidgin/tree/master/skypeweb

-- this contradiction is because maybe SkypeWeb is considered to be
   "fine" or acceptable, because it is remote, but again I see here
   software which serves only purpose of the vendor, it does not serve
   purpose of freedom, as it is locked in to proprietary vendor's
   SaaSS, and user has no freedom to make it onself. Yes, software is
   free, but that is exactly and should not be the only ethical factor
   in decision making of inclusion of such software into FSF endorsed
   distribution.

Jean

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