Re: (Really) Free Software future

[marinus.savoritias]

That can be easily abused though maybe even already is by Systemd. 

Make things harder to maintain so nobody can maintain. 

That results either in few obscure implementations or nothing.

Fannys

Oct 14, 2019, 20:54 by address@hidden:

Modifying thing IS a key value of Free Software. If you don't want to bother yourself with maintaining software, then let those who do it, decide how to do it.

در October 14, 2019 6:47:55 PM UTC، Alexander Vdolainen <address@hidden> نوشت:

Hi,

On 10/14/19 9:40 PM, دانیال بهزادی wrote:
No, it's not. Because you are free to change the source code and make it
systemd-independant just like Gentoo or Devuan do.

It's not free, you still need to modify something, to maintain your own
fork etc ... At some point in future you will also need to rewrite and
redesign a lot of code because of systemd.

It's lock-in.


در October 14, 2019 6:32:13 PM UTC، Alexander Vdolainen <address@hidden>
نوشت:

    Hi,

    On 10/14/19 9:16 PM, Paul Smith wrote:

        On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 18:52 +0200, Svante Signell wrote:

            On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 12:13 -0400, Paul Smith wrote:

                On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 12:07 +0200, Svante Signell wrote:


    (skipped)

        For example, no aspect of either GNOME or systemd are proprietary,
        using the common meaning of the term. Also, "lock-in" usually refers
        to software that prevents users from switching to an
        alternative; GNOME
        and systemd are certainly not lock-in.


    I'm afraid but I cannot agree with that. Actually with systemd design
    you have 'lock-in', because in some cases you need to modify a source
    code to support systemd (or you will face something like this -
    https://superuser.com/questions/1372963/how-do-i-keep-systemd-from-killing-my-tmux-sessions).
    Also, a lot of system daemons has eaten by systemd (and to make it works
    some forks were created like eudev).
    Finally, correct me if I wrong, but GNOME 3.8 and newer requires systemd
    to run, it's a lock-in isn't it ?


        A non-commercial clause is directly opposed to the four freedoms (in
        particular freedom 0). In fact a number of otherwise-could-be-free
        software licenses have been deemed non-free solely for this type of
        thing. Unless I misunderstand what you mean by "non-commercial
        clause".

        I don't think it's appropriate to state that software that doesn't
        follow KISS can be considered non-free... how does one even measure
        that? By whose definition is software not "simple"? Many people
        would
        suggest that GCC, glibc, Emacs, or other flagship GNU packages
        are not
        "KISS". Similarly, there's no concrete definition of "*NIX
        principles"
        that one can use. Who will decide? Again many people would suggest
        Emacs, with its "editor as an OS interface" construction, doesn't
        follow *NIX principles. I don't see how these criteria can be
        used to
        measure software freedoms, other than by each person individually
        according to their own tastes.

        As with all free software, if someone feels that some software
        is not
        KISS (enough) or not *NIX (enough), they can avail themselves of
        their
        four freedoms and modify that software as they like, and
        distribute it
        to anyone else they like.




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