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Re: [Gnucap-devel] Feedback needed, especially non-Linux

From: al davis
Subject: Re: [Gnucap-devel] Feedback needed, especially non-Linux
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 19:04:24 -0500
User-agent: KMail/1.9.5

On Thursday 22 February 2007 17:23, David Fang wrote:
>         Ok, it didn't take long to find various comments
> about link ordering: src/,, etc... :)
>         Link-ordering and global initialization ordering
> between translation units are not related; you cannot depend
> on link ordering to influence the other.  When it happens to 
> work, consider yourself lucky! 

Actually, it is not guaranteed but is deterministic.  Such 
system dependencies are undesirable but exist more often than 
most of us are willing to admit.  One example is the assignment 
of device names in a unix-type operating system.  Suppose you 
have two ethernet ports.  Which is which?  What order are the 
file systems mounted?  

Based on claims of magic, that is one of the things I would 
expect autoconf to take care of.  It does a great job at 
working around the junk of pre-Ansi C, but we still have that 
baggage, and there isn't much there for C++.  It doesn't easily 
handle most C++ issues.

It has to do with 

1. A container obviously must be initialized before putting 
anything in it.

2. The objects in that container vary depending on 

The container is in  The objects in it are in 
assorted other files which may or may not actually be used.  
You can remove something, just leave it out of the Makefile.  
You can add your own modules, just add it to the Makefile.  No 
other changes are allowed.

If you leave it out, you can add it at run time (like a kernel 
module).  There is no difference between a module that is 
linked at compile time and one that is added later, other than 
whether it is in the Makefile.

Look at the file "Make1" .. It separates out the files that 
apply here.  

You will see....
$(D_SRCS) \
$(BM_SRCS) \
$(C_SRCS) \ \

If you remove those SRCS lines, omitting those files, the 
program will still link and run.  It won't do anything, but 
that's ok for now.  A couple of others with the link order 
problem are still there, so it won't fix the link order issue.  
I can deal with it on a small scale.

> I'd advise wrapping access to 
> global variables/structures through some init-once interface,
> like a function, rather than relying on ordering.  If you
> need to be precise about global object lifetime, consider
> using a reference-count pointer to manage orderly
> destruction. Does this help?

Not sure ...   Remember, it is a requirement that there is no 
difference between a compiled in module and one attached later 
at run time.  It is also a requirement that no tables need to 
be kept in sync.  You are allowed to list it one place, only. 

I am leaning toward putting the commands and models in a .so 
file.  The program can start, which initializes the container, 
then load the .so.  The problem with this is that not all 
systems can do dynamic linking.  On these, the plugin feature 
won't work anyway, but it would be nice to still be able to 
build a static linked version.

For an interesting sideline ....  How did they solve this 
problem for iostream?  It isn't documented anywhere, but look 
at the source, you will see.   uh...  Actually you will 
probably still wonder.  The issue on this one is that "cout" 
and friends must work in static constructors, therefore must be 
initialized before any other static constructor.

Speaking of which ... 

Consider this program....
#include <iostream>
class foo {
  foo() {std::cout << "Hello world\n";}
} x;

int main() {}

Does it work?

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