Re: [External] : Re: not good proposal: "C-z <letter>" reserved for users

[Philip Kaludercic]

Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

>> Yes.  But I don't think that solves the problems that Gregory Heyting
>> and Drew Adams are talking about.
>> 
>> Firstly, it can't do anything about changes in keybindings in future
>> Emacs versions.  Drew tells us that Emacs has recently mapped "C-x x",
>> "C-x p" and "C-x /".  I'm using Emacs 27.1, so all of those must have
>> been mapped for Emacs 28 (or perhaps the version after that).
>
> To be clear, my understanding, from following bug
> and emacs-devel threads, is as follows.  Anyone
> can correct me if I'm mistaken in any way.
>
> 1. `C-x p' was recently grabbed as a prefix key
> for Project (by Dmitry, in fact) - over my pleas
> and arguments not to.  That was maybe 8 months ago?
>
> Bookmark+ had, for many years, lots and lots of
> keys on that prefix key.  The only arguments by
> Dmitry in favor of grabbing that key for Project
> were, in effect, (a) we want to do it and (b) we
> don't need to care what Bookmark+ has been using.
> OK.
>
> As a result of that, I changed Bookmark+ last July
> to use `C-x x' instead.  (There was no mention of
> `C-x x' in that discussion, and it was unbound.)
>
> 2. Recently, Lars decided to bind `revert-buffer'
> to `C-x x g'.  There was subsequent discussion
> about using that prefix key `C-x x' for things
> related to buffers, in general.  I don't know
> exactly what's been done in that regard.
>
> Needless to say, I again objected, saying that
> I've moved Bookmark+ keys from prefix `C-x p' to
> `C-x x', and asking that they not now usurp also
> `C-x x'.  But AFAIK, `C-x x' has, yes, now been
> grabbed by Emacs as a default global binding.
>
> (There was quite a lot of objection, BTW, to the
> idea that Emacs needs a _global_ key for reverting
> a buffer.  I'm not even sure there was _anyone_
> arguing in favor of that, besides the maintainer
> who came up with the idea.)
>
> 3. There was talk in emacs-devel (or a bug thread?)
> about binding `C-x /' by default.  I don't know
> what finally happened in that regard.  But I chimed
> in about that too, saying that I use that prefix key
> for zones.el.  I mentioned this while pointing out
> there is a _general_ problem here: Emacs grabbing
> more keys for default bindings, leaving 3rd-party
> code with fewer and fewer options.
>
> 4. I'll mention too that for Bookmark+ when I
> changed from `C-x p' to `C-x x' I added a user
> option for which key to use.  So users can deal
> with the new conflict themselves, if I don't
> end up trying yet another key as the default.

I hope I'm not oversimplifying, but doesn't this demonstrate the problem
with third-party code when it attempt to bind maps or commands by
default? Default keybindings can be safely overridden (I myself have
done so for multiple keys C-x C-r, C-x u, M-u/l/c, M-/, ...), so as
Dmitry says, the users may override project.el's map or move it
somewhere else, as long as a package like bookmark+ does not insist on a
specific prefix? I am not familiar with bookmark+, so maybe I am missing
something...

-- 
        Philip K.

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