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Re: Woodwind diagrams in lilypond w/ changes from M Watts & I Hulin

From: josé henrique padovani
Subject: Re: Woodwind diagrams in lilypond w/ changes from M Watts & I Hulin
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 20:13:30 -0300
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; pt-BR; rv: Gecko/20100317 Thunderbird/3.0.4

forgot to ask: are the diagrams working with the svg backend?


Em 09/06/10 20:12, josé henrique padovani escreveu:
Hi Mike,

I would suggest to add the possibility of marked keys (to make sing trills or smorzati, for example)... by now I am drawing my diagrams with postscript, but there is what I am talking about (attached)...

I would also like to know: is the code of your woodwind diagrams available somewhere? (Does it require to recompile lilypond or can it be used with "includes"?)


Em 09/06/10 06:26, Mike Solomon escreveu:
Hey liylpond users,
     Please see:
and to see the changes proposed by M Watts and Ian Hulin incorporated into the
woodwind diagrams.

To summarize:

There is now a new flute, flute-b-extension, for flutes with the b

There is now a new bass clarinet, low-bass-clarinet, for bass clarinets with
low keys (c, cis, d).

There are separate commands for saxophone-saxohpone, alto-saxophone,
tenor-saxophone, and baritone-saxophone. There is a low-a key for bari sax
that is only drawn wehn you call it.

All graphical comments have been integrated save the low oboe keys - in most examples I've consulted, the keys are not drawn w/ equal sizes. And I think
it's prettier w/ the different sizes :-)

Bagpipes, tin whistles, simple clarinets, bagpipes and the like will be
looked into in the not-too-distant future. For now, I'm going to try and
get what already exists into Lilypond ASAP.  If any of you want to
contribute diagrams, please consult me for the source (which is all in


On 5/31/10 1:13 PM, "Ian Hulin"<address@hidden>  wrote:

Hi Mike,
This is really useful, but there's one nit regarding the flute fingerings,

Not all flutes have a bottom b, and therefore the right-hand low-end key
cluster will only have the bottom C# (cis) key, and one c roller.

What is the right-hand x key about on the piccolo chart?

If you can add something to use the relevant key-cluster appropriately
that would be good.

On 31/05/10 02:03, M Watts wrote:
On 05/31/2010 02:10 AM, Mike Solomon wrote:
Dear lilypond users,
I am currently working on adding woodwind diagrams to lilypond, and I
would love to hear lilypond users' opinions on this project.
An excellent idea -- contrats on the work so far.

Specifically, I would like to know from woodwind players and/or

1) Are the diagrams correct in their nomenclature and positioning?
One vital thing:--

The 'one', 'two' thru 'six' for the main keys/holes on all instruments
are round the wrong way -- 'one' means first finger, left hand. So 'one'
should be at the top, and 'six' at the bottom.

Some w/w tutors also use a L1, L2, L3, R1 R2 R3 numbering system, but
the low numbers are *always* at the headjoint end of the instrument and
increase down to the footjoint end.

Several minor things:--

Could the separator line between lh&  rh key be a bit longer?

I like the way you only include relevant key clusters -- no need to show
every key every time.

Oboe: rh c cis&  ees keys are usually of equal size

Saxophone: front f could be a bit bigger and closer to lh one; palm keys could be a bit bigger (lh d ees& f); rh side keys could be a bit bigger
(side bes, side c, high e). Maybe add baritone sax low A thumb key?
Similar point to the low-b on the flute.  Not all makes have this.

Clarinet: maybe T&  R could be a bit smaller.

Bass clarinet: some horns have an additional ees/aes lever in the lh
little finger cluster; low c horns might have a 6th key for rh little
finger (for low d), as well as 3 keys for rh thumb (low d, des, c)

2) Do the diagrams meet the standard of visual elegance to which you hold
I reckon so -- they're looking really nice; I like the ability to
indicate depressedRing-to-open trills etc.
If you are interested in extending this project to other instruments,
let me know.
Maybe recorder, tin whistle, bagpipes
Baroque flute, Simple-system flute (pre-Boehm keyed - used by 'Irish
traditional music flute players).
Simple-system clarinet.  French-system bassoon.
The code is written as such so that someone who knows how to
use Scheme should be able to, by observing the way that the
instruments are
constructed, make their own instrument in the same manner.
Very handy.



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