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Re: [Texmacs-dev] Guile 2.2 upgrade, should support for older guile be d

From: Karl Hegbloom
Subject: Re: [Texmacs-dev] Guile 2.2 upgrade, should support for older guile be dropped?
Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 18:26:45 +0000

Massimiliano, and all,

I think that I have a pretty good understanding of what needs to be done, but you know what that's like... as I progress through actually working on doing it I discover things I didn't know yet. With any luck I won't paint myself into a corner right?

I think that pretty soon probably not today because it's a holiday here in the United States I will push a work-in-progress branch so that others can take a look at it and either help out or offer advice if they see anything it needs. I'm camping out near the University of Utah...  camping for complicated reasons that are off topic in this particular mailing list, but near the University of Utah for reasons that are obvious within the context of this mailing list. Because of those off topic reasons I'm somewhat deadlocked sometimes and I can't put as much time into working on this as I want to. On the one hand I need to be near the University so that I can "hear voices" that teach me and Mentor me and help me understand what to do to solve this problem as well as the other problems that I have mentioned in passing and you could find on my blog if you're interested enough and have time for that... on the other hand I'd like to be about as far from anybody else as possible so that I do not have to "hear voices" that are related to those other problems... that make it difficult for me to get anything done on this project.

My personal problems (which actually are community-wide public interest constitutional law and judicial misconduct issues) aside... working on these software projects is more interesting to me than anything else, and it's what I'd prefer to be doing instead of having to do other people's jobs (the courts and law envorcers) or failing to do theirs in the local government in quarts... pints? Who will watch the Watchers, right?

I'm like that kid in school whose parents fight at home and because of the bullshit and those "emotional disturbances" does not do as well in school as he normally could. Please have some patience.  Every time I try to talk about the subject matter of those problems somebody harasses me to try to shut me up in preventing from talking about it. A hypothesis is that because they believe that it's necessary for me to finish working on this work before I can complete any more writing on the legal issues... or that it's not necessary and law article writing is their thing... they want to blockade or deadlock me from getting anything done at all. It's not really working very well for them other than preventing me from getting as much work done as I normally can... Professional educators are certainly not the cause of my troubles...

I know from past experience that on days where I'm not suffering from the harassment that I've been putting up with here I can get quite a lot of work done in a day and so normally it would not take anything like this long for me to finish with this. Basically there's a bunch of angry idiots who think they're supposed to be my boss who are not when in reality they are members of the class who are descendants in the lawsuit I described on my blog. They want to manage what I say and what I testify to as well as what decisions the supposedly-a-court publishes. Now I understand why early Christians avoided the court systems and everything like it.

So from the above you can see that the problem I'm having has to do with being deliberately sidetracked and distracted away from performing the work that I actually studied for in college and love that would help make this project better and more usable to the academics who would like to use it to produce useful knowledge sharing documents.

So without trying to get into the details, here, of how to say the things about what I (or we) actually need to do in terms of details within TeXmacs... (and within my zotero-texmacs-integration, which needs to be prted up to Juris-M / Zotero v5 very soon)... I will just try to say those things in code, code comments, or org-mode files, and push them to a work-in-progress tree on my github mirror of the TeXmacs svn repo.

Back on topic, appropriate to this discussion forum comma I think that since guile 1.8 is not really supported anymore Upstream within the guile project that we may as well just drop support for it. Guile 2.0 is also out of date with now the release of 2.2 and 2.2 has features that are going to help out quite a lot with making this work better. I have another concern but I'm not going to bury it in this over long email I'll send a second one.

Thank you for tolerating my off-topic rant.

Karl Martin Hegbloom.

On Mon, May 29, 2017, 03:41 Massimiliano Gubinelli <address@hidden> wrote:
Dear Karl,

 I tried some years ago a port to Guile 2. I think also Joris was thinking at some point to go to 2, I’m not sure what is his point of view about dropping completely 1.8. Maybe he should say something on that. But I also think that the main problem to leave 1.8 is to understand how to reorganise the scheme code, on the C++ side there is not much work to do. To me the main stumbling block when I tried to port to 2.0 has been the fact that the execution model is different and that many macros in the base TeXmacs’ scheme codebase are not compatible with the compile+execute model of Guile 2.0. So until somebody come up with a nice solution to this problem I think things are pretty much stuck.


On 27 May 2017, at 03:59, Karl Hegbloom <address@hidden> wrote:

I'm working on getting TeXmacs to compile and run with Guile 2.2, which was recently released. I really want to just drop support for guile 1.8. I guess the only concern is that if people out there have programs that rely on guile 1.8 that don't work in guile 2.2 they might want to be able to keep using it with guile 1.8... but that makes me think they can go ahead and just use the older version of TeXmacs with that until they update their program.

Even supporting Guile 2.0 seems unnecessary because it's almost a certainty that the distros will pick up guile 2.2. The macports package for guile is now guile 2.2, and it's hard to imagine any of the Linux distros not having the latest guile involved.

In the guile git tree, there is now a stable-2.2 branch, and the effect guile version in master (unreleased) is now 3.0, with the primary change, so far, being that the support for legacy syntax objects is dropped.

So what I'm asking you is if it turns out that my patches are acceptable will that depend on whether or not it still supports the older versions of guile, < 2.2?

 I have other concerns as well and I'll bring them up in different threads... but foreshadowing to give you something to think about until I actually write a question down... what about goops, and the interface between TeXmacs internals and guile?

It's going to take me a little while before I'm going to have enough put down to feel like pushing it to github.  of course one of the problems with my GitHub codebase is that all of the work I've been doing is on a branch where I've been working using cmake, rather than autotools. That means I'm going to have to take a little bit of time to reconcile what I've done back in with Joris' svn trunk, to ensure that the automake build works also.


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