Re: [be] Re: About a web based Bible translation environment

[bahasa kita]

You're right, Dennis,

that the table format will not encourage MTTs to look beyond verse boundaries. In fact, I found that I made the mistake of focusing too much on the verse level just today. 

It is ironic that translators often request to see things in a verse-by-verse format, as it helps us to find things on the screen. I know that this was frequently requested in the development of Paratext, as I was one who requested this myself! But I was told that the Bible Societies wanted to encourage people to see beyond verses by keeping the main view in paragraph format. But for all of their careful planning, I'm not sure that paragraph format will really help MTTs to focus on chunks wider than a verse. It really is something we will have to put into our training.

You're right. That final-read through before publishing helps people see naturalness issues! I found my share of changes in the Orya NT!

Phil

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Dennis Drescher <address@hidden> wrote:

Hi Phil,

I guess, ideally, we need a more sophisticated web-app that allows this kind of collaboration and enables the MTT to translate thought-for-thought, not verse-for-verse. However, I know that wouldn't be easy.

I'm not a translator, I'm a publisher, so I don't pretend to understand all the intricacies of the translation task. All I know is that from what I've observed over the years, when translators get their manuscript to the publishing stage and start having it tested by fresh readers in something that is close to the final published format, there is more of a focus on naturalness issues because they are easier to see.

I think the latest version your link points too is the best yet. Maybe for now the best solution is just a little training or reminder to the MTT that the chapter/verse arrangement is only a referencing system for the sake of the computer and is not part of inspired Scripture. Maybe that would help some from breaking thoughts at verse boundaries. Just a thought.

Thanks for all your good work on this. I think it is a good direction to go.

In Him,

Dennis

bahasa kita wrote:

Thanks for your chapter and verse comments, Dennis!

As I actually started to work with my boxes, I also came to some of your conclusions. Take a look at my newer format. It is much simpler to use and create.

https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AbRTHErTLxUWZGQ4ajVjOV8xMzNkNHBkczJoaw&hl=en <https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AbRTHErTLxUWZGQ4ajVjOV8xMzNkNHBkczJoaw&hl=en>

I do hope we can come up with something better than this. This is great for collaboration and revision tracking, but we also need integration with Bibledit.

Phil

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 1:00 AM, Dennis Drescher <address@hidden <mailto:address@hidden>> wrote:

   Hi,

   \c 1

   \v 1 I know that this is all intended
   to get better tools into the hands of MTTs.

   \v 2 The web is somewhat ubiquitous so
   using technologies like GoogleDocs would
   make it easy.

   \v 3 However, to me this looks more like
   a means to move data easier than to enable
   MTTs to translate better.

   \c 2

   \v 4 How can an MTT translate a given text
   if everything is kept in neat little boxes?

   \v 5 Is there some way to enable people to
   enter their translated text in a way that
   which maintains more of a section/paragraph
   structure,

   \v 6 rather than a chapter/verse structure,
   which really isn't that natural anyway? Just
   wondering.

   Dennis


   bahasa kita wrote:

       Below is a link to a proposed format for working on Scripture in
       GoogleDocs.
       I think this format would make it reasonably easy for MTTs to
       work on Bible translation on-line. This format would also make
       it easy to transfer the result to Bibledit for formatting,
       running various checks, etc.

       Proposed new Format for Gdocs:
       https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AbRTHErTLxUWZGQ4ajVjOV8xMzI5OHg5cGhjbQ&hl=en
       <https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AbRTHErTLxUWZGQ4ajVjOV8xMzI5OHg5cGhjbQ&hl=en>
       <https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AbRTHErTLxUWZGQ4ajVjOV8xMzI5OHg5cGhjbQ&hl=en
       <https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AbRTHErTLxUWZGQ4ajVjOV8xMzI5OHg5cGhjbQ&hl=en>>



       Here is an example of our Old format:
       https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AbRTHErTLxUWZGQ4ajVjOV8xNzZobm1wcXpkeg&hl=en
       <https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AbRTHErTLxUWZGQ4ajVjOV8xNzZobm1wcXpkeg&hl=en>
       <https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AbRTHErTLxUWZGQ4ajVjOV8xNzZobm1wcXpkeg&hl=en
       <https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AbRTHErTLxUWZGQ4ajVjOV8xNzZobm1wcXpkeg&hl=en>>

       Phil