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Re: Japanese expression of date (Re: use of locale in "ls")


From: Paul Eggert
Subject: Re: Japanese expression of date (Re: use of locale in "ls")
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:04:28 -0800 (PST)

> From: Tomohiro KUBOTA <address@hidden>
> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:41:32 +0900

> Bruno Haible wrote:
> > if you agree that "ls" in a Japanese locale should display
> > Japanese month names *by default*, then make your voice heard
> > (mail to address@hidden).

> Of course the most pleasant solution is to display date in correct
> Japanese expression "%mGATSU %dNICHI" or "%YNEN %mGATSU %dNICHI"
> (NEN, GATSU and NICHI should be of course written in Ideogram).

Unfortunately none of the current GNU 'ls' time stamp formats
implement this format.  Here's an example, which uses 'DD' to denote
NICHI, 'MM' to denote GATSU, and 'YY' to denote NEN.

   Here is GNU 'ls' with the ja locale:

     $ ls -l --time-style='posix-iso' .plan .profile
     -r--r--r--    1 eggert   eggert        386 1981-07-14  .plan
     -r--r--r--    1 eggert   eggert       4012 11-20 11:03 .profile
     $ ls -l --time-style='locale' .plan .profile
     -r--r--r--    1 eggert   eggert        386  7MM 14  1981 .plan
     -r--r--r--    1 eggert   eggert       4012 11MM 20 11:03 .profile

   Here's what Solaris 8 'ls' does (it doesn't match either GNU behavior):

     $ ls -l .plan .profile
     -r--r--r--   1 eggert   eggert       386  7MM 14DD 1981YY .plan
     -r--r--r--   1 eggert   eggert      4012 11MM 20DD  11:03 .profile

Now, the question is what should be the system default "ls -l" format
for Japanese users.  (It's each to change the default, if you prefer.)

As you mention, the natural way to write Gregorian dates in Japanese
is '1981YY7MM14DD' -- or '7MM14DD' if it's a date in this year.  None
of the above commands output dates in the natural format: they are all
"wrong", one way or another.  However, the posix-iso format does have
two advantages over the others: it alone uses the proper time stamp
order for Japan, and it consumes the fewest display columns (which is
becoming more important as file names get longer :-).

To my mind, the most interesting thing about this exercise is the
Solaris 8 output.  Solaris has been Japanized for much longer than
GNU/Linux has, and yet Solaris 'ls' also uses a date format that is
"wrong" for Japan.  Is this because no Japanese Solaris users care
enough about the discrepancy to get 'ls' fixed?  Or is it because
there are different usages in Japan or perhaps backward-compatibility
concerns, and the Solaris format is the best choice among unpleasant
alternatives?

Either way, I look forward to hearing more opinions from Japanese users
(especially unsolicited opinions :-).



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