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Re: [Denemo-devel] 2-key shortcuts

From: Richard Shann
Subject: Re: [Denemo-devel] 2-key shortcuts
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 09:37:15 +0100

On Sun, 2010-06-20 at 12:13 +0200, Nils Gey wrote:
> Hello,
> First I think its a no-go to change anything in Denemo (or any other computer 
> program) to key-release triggers (while nothing happens on press). 
While I would not have such a feature activated for first time users
taking a look at the program, I am quite happy to contemplate any
radical use of the input devices available that make it easy for the
more advanced user. Curiously, I did not pluck this idea from the air,
but got it from a commercial music notation program which someone showed
me the other day. It is a typical mouse-driven graphical sort of program
where holding down a key such as 'p' and then clicking or dragging has a
different meaning. The program gives an explanation of the technique on
the menu label, otherwise I would not have found it. (In every other
respect the programs workings were opaque to me, not too surprising
given my expectations of how a music notation program might work).

> Second I have to say I am not really sure
>  if this kind of shortcut (normal keys as modkeys) has any benefit over the 
> normal
well, it is clear that the example I gave (s for slur, then hold it down
and use the arrow keys to extend) does give a benefit, once you know how
it works.
>  modkey+basic key followed by another basic key which can be seen all over 
> the linux world, especially in other GNU projects like Screen or Emacs.
> If you have to press another modifier (like numlock) to turn this behaviour 
> on and off
yes this would make the program modal (as the caps lock is doing at
present for those who use it). I don't think I get on well with modal
programs myself - there is, IIRC, a whole philosophy movement that
deplores them.
>  it gets far away from the initial goal to make complex and an a huge amount 
> of commands easily available.
> I personally don't use letter keys to enter notes, too. But there has to be 
> away to use the letter keys for notation

>  and use them for other things, too.
another way would be to switch keybindings, but that too is modal. So
's' could put you in slur mode, and the arrow keys become extenders of
the slur, a further 's' takes you out again. I think we need to look at

>  And I think these should only
well, we won't deliberately limit our users to "only" something if we
can help it:)

>  be modkey combinations and sucessive key presses.
> Nils
> On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 09:42:17 +0100
> Richard Shann <address@hidden> wrote:
> > This will require some programming effort in keyresponses.c to move to
> > responding to the key release rather than the key press. I have
> > experimented with this - it is disconcerting that the action does not
> > take place until you release the key - you expect to see something
> > happen as you press it down.
> > This is an inescapable fact - if when the "b" key is pressed down the
> > action (inserting note B) takes place then it is not possible to have a
> > two-key shortcut involving pressing and holding "b" while pressing and
> > releasing a second key.
> > But its usefulness is even greater than the example given (i.e. b-n
> > inserts barline normal etc) would suggest. Consider holding the "s" key
> > (for "slur") and then the left and right arrow keys. So a single "s"
> > keypress could be bound to starting a slur, and holding the s and
> > pressing right would extend it, left reduce it.
> > Very intuitive. But the only way it would be acceptable to have the
> > response to a keypress on the release would be if it was something you
> > turned on/off, e.g. by putting on/off the NumLock. So if you were
> > entering notes you would turn it off, but if you were doing other work,
> > involving two-key shortcuts you would turn it on.
> > 
> > I do virtually all my note entering using the MIDI keyboard - hitting a
> > note name is just a tweaking thing I might do while at the pc-keyboard
> > fixing things. So I might actually make the two-key shortcut mode my
> > personal default.
> > 
> > Richard
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, 2010-06-19 at 10:17 +0100, Richard Shann wrote:
> > > I have some code for these. However, it occurs to me that more useful
> > > might be the ability to use the alphabetic keys as a sort of shift key:
> > > 
> > > Hold down key 'b' then 
> > >   press and release n
> > >           a normal barline is inserted
> > >   press and release e
> > >           an end of movement barline is inserted
> > >   press and release s
> > >           a start repeat barline is inserted
> > > 
> > > etc. The point being that you keep 'b' for the note B while having
> > > memorable two-key names for things you want, un-restricted by the note
> > > names.
> > > 
> > > This will require some programming effort in keyresponses.c to move to
> > > responding to the key release rather than the key press.
> > > 
> > > Richard
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Denemo-devel mailing list
> > > address@hidden
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Denemo-devel mailing list
> > address@hidden
> >
> > 

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