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Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things...
From: |
Doc O'Leary |
Subject: |
Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things... |
Date: |
Fri, 13 Sep 2013 12:01:10 -0500 |
User-agent: |
MT-NewsWatcher/3.5.2 (Intel Mac OS X) |
In article <mailman.1986.1379017538.10748.discuss-gnustep@gnu.org>,
Doug Simons <doug.simons@testplant.com> wrote:
> I think any Cocoa developer who discovers GNUstep and begins to consider
> using it to port their app will immediately be asking questions like "Does it
> work?", "How complete is it?", "Will it do what I need for my app?".
Yes, but some higher level organizational questions come first. The
vast majority of ObjC developers have come in after 2007 with iOS,
chasing after dollar signs in the App Store. GNUstep doesn't really
make a case for them. In fact, the site doesn't really lay out a path
for anyone; it just seems to assume you know where it fits. It should
be more motivational, for both developers and users.
The developer questions that I see more pressing are ones like: "How do
I use this to get a feel for iOS development without buying a Mac?"
"How do I use this to port my Mac app to Windows?" "How do I use this
to port a Mac/iOS app to Linux/Android?" "How do I use this to leverage
my model classes to develop the server backend?" You get them going
quickly by addressing the bigger concerns, and those other questions
will answer themselves.
> They
> will likely be highly skeptical about GNUstep and not believe that it will
> simply work as a Cocoa replacement. Reading that GNUstep implements 80% of
> Cocoa (or whatever) is almost completely useless information, and means that
> it will take them considerable effort to even figure out whether it's worth
> looking at in more depth.
That's why I say *that* is the barrier to remove. Once they're in the
environment, it matters *much* less what 20% is missing because the
developer might have a good idea on how to get things going either
without it or with a reasonable substitute. You want to put them as
close as possible to the finish line, not give them the idea that they
shouldn't even start the race.
> If there is a tool that can quickly give them a
> concrete indication of approximately how much effort might be involved, I
> think it would go a long way toward easing their entry into GNUstep. So I
> don't understand why you think such a tool would have them looking at GNUstep
> like a stinky diaper. I think they will see it that way right from the start,
> and the tool will help them get past the stinkiness and move ahead with a
> clearer idea of the reality. But that's just my opinion. :-)
I think you're wrong, of course; we may both be wrong about it, too!
It's just been my experience that people are loathe to start projects
that immediately look like they'll fail. That is especially true when
it doesn't look like there will be much reward for the effort.
> I totally agree that making it all less daunting from the get-go is
> important. Another critically important piece of that, IMHO, would be to
> simplify the build process. Either make it as easy as possible to build a
> GNUstep app from within Xcode, or if that's not feasible, make the build
> process for Cocoa apps on Windows/Linux as close to one-click as possible.
> For me, at least, I would want to start the process off with specific compile
> errors showing the parts of my code that need work, rather than fighting with
> installing, configuring, and setting up the environment for many hours.
This is why I'd like to see pathways to development/deployment
addressed. For example, it isn't immediately clear that it *can* run on
a Mac alongside Xcode, but even if it can be, perhaps best practices
would instead suggest providing GNUstep as a pre-configured Linux image
for VirtualBox (or whatever). It's a lot of effort that doesn't
*directly* improve GNUstep, but if the goal is to get people
using/funding it, the approach has to be a lot more than "well, here it
is".
--
iPhone apps that matter: http://appstore.subsume.com/
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, theremailer.net,
and probably your server, too.
- Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things..., (continued)
- Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things..., Riccardo Mottola, 2013/09/12
- Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things..., Robert Slover, 2013/09/12
- Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things..., Doug Simons, 2013/09/12
- Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things..., Austin Clow, 2013/09/12
- Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things..., Dr . H . Nikolaus Schaller, 2013/09/12
- Message not available
- Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things..., Doc O'Leary, 2013/09/12
- Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things..., Muhammad Hussein Nasrollahpour, 2013/09/12
- Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things..., Gregory Casamento, 2013/09/12
- Message not available
- Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things..., Doc O'Leary, 2013/09/13
- Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things..., Doug Simons, 2013/09/12
- Message not available
- Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things...,
Doc O'Leary <=
Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things..., Riccardo Mottola, 2013/09/12
Message not available
Re: Kickstarter was not successful... but it did help things..., Muhammad Hussein Nasrollahpour, 2013/09/12