Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Fight Trademark with Libremark

[Joshua Gay]

> This point make me think that with trademark we are not Free As In
> Freedom and so, we all need something more corresponding to our way of
> think: Freedom.

Can you please explain what you mean? For example, we say that free
software is free as in freedom (or a matter of liberty not price). But
when someone asks us to explain further, we explain that by "freedom" we
are referring to a specific set of freedoms: The freedom to run the
program, the freedom to share it with others, the freedom to study and
make changes it to the program, and the freedom to share the changes you
have made with others. Perhaps it would be help to complete a sentence
along these lines: "with trademarks, I do not have the freedom to: [fill
in the blank]".

Also, below I have shared some of the things the FSF has stated about
trademark. Perhaps you could compare and contrast your own position with
ours? Is your position that of 'with trademark we are not free as in
freedom' compatible with the FSF's position, use, and policies around
trademark? If not, can you explain the differences?

"The purpose of Trademark law, by contrast, was not intended to promote
any particular way of acting, but simply to enable buyers to know what
they are buying." https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html

Here is a summary that more or less captures the position of the FSF on
trademark as it applies to free software:

  Trademarks are associated with some software. For example, the name
  of a program may be trademarked, or its interface may display a
  trademarked logo. Often, the use of these marks will be controlled
  in some way; in particular, developers are commonly asked to remove
  references to the trademark from the software when they modify it.

  In extreme cases, these restrictions may effectively render the
  program nonfree. It is unfair for someone to ask you to remove a
  trademark from modified code if that trademark is scattered all
  throughout the original source. As long as the practical
  requirements are reasonable, however, free system distributions may
  include these programs, either with or without the trademarks.

  Similarly, the distribution itself may hold particular
  trademarks. It is not a problem if modification requires removal of
  these trademarks, as long as they can readily be removed without
  losing functionality.

The GNU GPL version 3 allows users modifying a work to, notwithstanding
any other provision of the license, to add terms "Declining to grant
rights under trademark law for use of some trade names, trademarks, or
service marks;" http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.html#section7

I would also like to point out that GNU is a registered trademark of the
FSF and we do from time to time enforce this trademark.

> 
> Thank *LibreMark* Born \o/
> 
> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:LibreMark
> 
> Now, we need lawyer improvement to make it powerfull and to protect our
> freedom higher.

It might be useful to have a group focused on discussing trademarks.
However, after reading the LibreMark page, it is not clear to me the
purpose, goals, or function of the LibreMark. It might be that there is
a reason for the LibreMark, but, I'm hesitant to start something new
from scratch if it is not necessary.

To help us better understand what it is you are trying to accomplish,
perhaps it would help (and be productive in general) if more context was
provided. For example, maybe you could set the stage by providing a
couple paragraphs that give some basic overview of trademarks, such as:

* The purpose of trademark and related concepts (e.g., service marks,
certification marks, Wordmark, trade dress).
* Classification of trademarks and the general regulatory framework they
exist inside of
* How to identify trademarks and service marks (e.g, ™, ℠, ®), and the
difference between registered vs unregistered trademarks.

Then you could transition to how trademark, service marks, etc. apply to
free software. And then you could could state the problem you wish to
solve by creating the libremark and how you imagine the LibreMark to
work or be used.

For related or supporting activity around this group or effort, I would
be interested in understanding more about some of the initiatives and
activities by others in our community. For example:

* I would like to know what people think of the Model Trademark
Guidelines for FLOSS projects: <http://modeltrademarkguidelines.org>. I
have not had a chance to look into this project but I hope to do so
sometime in the future.

* I would be interested in a review of the Wikimedia Foundation
trademark policy and the quality/usefulness of their supporting materials:
 * <http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Trademark_policy>
 * <http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Visual_identity_guidelines>
 * <http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Trademark_policy-purpose>
 * <http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Trademark_policy-FAQ>

Best,

Josh
-- 
Joshua Gay
Licensing & Compliance Manager  <http://www.fsf.org/licensing>
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