RE: [Phpgroupware-developers] Conceptually Incorrect Icons + new CRM navigation + ACL extension questions

[Brad Sturgill]

Hi Ralf,

I'm glad to hear that you recognize the issue with ACL.  It would be nice to
be able to extend beyond infolog so that other apps, such as projects and
add(ress)book, have similar capabilities.  I understand that it is possible
to do this with the existing ACL structure but an interface may not yet be
developed to take advantage of it.  I am looking into it now but it may take
a few days.  Are you familiar with this ability?  Is there anybody else that
is familiar with this functionality?

As for the work flow issues.  I do have some code that initiates in
addressbook but it is not in very good shape (very ugly at this point).  It
would make a whole lot more sense to step back and design a workflow engine
that can tie apps together under a set of rules and conditional branching
based on these rules.  In this way, administrators can define standardized
workflow and/or users can define their own workflow (if administrator grants
these privileges).  Conceptually, I know how this should work, but I am not
yet familiar enough with the phpgroupware code to start to create the tech
specs.

More to come (hopefully) on this in the coming months.

Brad

-----Original Message-----
From: address@hidden
[mailto:address@hidden Behalf Of Ralf Becker
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 6:57 AM
To: address@hidden
Subject: Re: [Phpgroupware-developers] Conceptually Incorrect Icons +
new CRM navigation + ACL extension questions


Hi Brad,

concerning the ACL extension you suggesting:

i have about the same situation with our freelancers, they should get as
much information as possible about the contracts they working on, BUT
only about these contracts. At the moment i give them access to the
necessary files and infolog entries by making them responsible for the
concerning infolog entry (responsibility in infolog gives you access on
a entry-by-entry basis). Unfortunally you can only assign one
responsible user right now - i'm thinking about extending this to
multiple users and groups.

Ralf

PS.: I'm interessted in the workflow thing too. Do u have any existing
code - or is it only plans right now.


Brad Sturgill wrote:

> Well, I don't know (and frankly don't really care) if they are
conceptually
> correct or incorrect, I simply learn the icons meaning and use it.
However,
> I have had some users mention (not complain or suggest changes) that the
> icons for reply and reply to all look more like the forward icon standard
> (pointing forward rather than back).
>
> I agree that eye candy sells, as a result I have added icons in the system
> where text navigation was the only option.  For example, I have added
icons
> in the address book to replace "edit, Vcard, and view".  It does give it a
> more "finished" look.  I have been adding icons throughout the
application,
> as well as standardizing fonts (or at least attempting to).  The
inspiration
> for this was the work that was developed in the infolog app.
>
> As for the icons in email, I simply changed them to something that
satisfied
> my users.  It wasn't hard, and again, I just don't care.  It only took a
> minute to change them to the KDE icons and now I don't get the comments
any
> more.  So all I can say on the matter (I guess I have said too much
already)
> is that if somebody is bothered by it they can change it themselves.
There
> is nothing preventing them from creating a backup of the existing icon and
> copying the new icon over the existing one.  Of course the only problem is
> that updating to newer versions requires a little more attention.
>
> Workflow for CRM functionality:
>
> On a different subject, I have been working on creating additional
workflow
> navigation that allows my users to take advantage of addressbook, projects
> and infolog in a CRM like manner.  While the basic functionality is
already
> there, I have been tying them together so that it is easier to navigate
from
> one app to the other without having to select the menu options and
> re-identify who/what I was working on.  Again, my risk is that I will have
a
> bigger challenge when upgrading.  So... is anybody else interested in this
> type of functionality?  Would the developers of these three apps be
> interested in incorporating this type of work flow?  Since I am new to the
> code, I am sure there are better ways of doing things than what I have
done.
> So I seriously doubt that anybody would want to simply take the changes as
> is (when they are done).  However, it could be a "use" guide.
>
> ACL Extensions:
>
> One last subject (for now), I have also been exploring the possibility of
> extending the existing ACL functionality.  The concepts developed so far
are
> really great and work wonderfully!  However, I would like to add one more
> level of "sharing".  I would like to be able to share different records
> within an app to different people.  For example, I would like to "share"
> with people in the accounting group records from the addressbook and
infolog
> for contacts that have been historically slow to pay for services.  I
> obviously don't want to share this type of information to the entire
> company, but I do want to share sales activities (records in the
> addressbook, infolog, projects apps) with the sales teams.  But, with the
> existing ACL functionality, as I understand it, when I make addressbook
> entries not private everybody I grant read privileges to can see it (in
this
> case accounting and sales).  If there is a way to do this within the app
> today I don't see it (but again I am relatively new with the app), so
please
> point me in the right direction.  However, if this type of functionality
is
> not available today, is anybody else interested in this?  Would the ACL
> developer be interested in enhancing this wonderful piece of code to
include
> this functionality?  I have some ideas on how to develop this
functionality
> but have not yet formalized it (in other words I haven't written it down).
> I would really enjoy working with somebody on this if there is any real
> interest.
>
> Congratulations on a great set of apps in a wonderful framework.  I had
been
> using another set of code "H#*%E" but started with this a few weeks ago.
> To-date, all of my users have migrated (by choice) to this set of apps and
> really love it.  Thanks for all of your efforts in putting together a set
of
> apps that really hit the mark, AND thanks for making doing it in such an
> organized and structured manner.
>
> Brad Sturgill
> Telos Group
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: address@hidden
> [mailto:address@hidden Behalf Of Chris Weiss
> Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 11:54 AM
> To: address@hidden
> Subject: Re: [Phpgroupware-developers] Conceptually Incorrect Icons
>
>
> First, I'm all for anything "new and improved", especially where
"intuitive"
> is the
> goal.  I hate trianing people.  However.....
>
> Those look just like the old-old icons except even more bland, which was
the
> biggest
> user complaint about them.  Most email apps do use a different color for
the
> arrow
> on the forward icon, but other than that I don't see what's so wrong with
> the
> current ones.  And I really don't see how your icons are in any way better
> than what
> we have.  We have eye candy, and in the real world, eye candy sells.  You
> arrows
> point the same way, just one has one more arrow, I fail to see how adding
an
> arrow
> makes it more intutitve, to me it looks more clutered.
>
> On a side note, and a couple pet peeves of mine: BMP is not an internet
> standard
> format.  PNG is prefered, GIF and JPG are also welcome.  You wrote a plain
> text
> email, why on earth would you write an <a href> in it?  Let the properly
> written
> email clients do their job in making a URL a clickable link.  As you wrote
> it the
> "clickable" was ("http://web.njit.edu/~jxr7434/reply.bmp";>here).
>
> Chris - just a guy that likes to voice his oppinions :)
>
> John Rizzo (address@hidden) wrote*:
>
>>Hi guys,
>>
>>First I would like to congradulate you on a spectacular application!!!
Good
>>
> work.
>
>>Recently I have been taking a class in Human Computer Interaction.
>>
> Specifically we
>
>>have been studying incorrect designs so my mind has been aware of this as
I
>>
> go
>
>>through life.  Hence, I noticed that the reply and reply to all buttons
>>
> appear to
>
>>be conceptually incorrect.  When you reply you are usually thinking of
>>
> sending a
>
>>message back to the user and therefor the arrows would be pointing to the
>>
> left.
>
>>This is not necessarily a problem in and of itself however your forward
>>
> button
>
>>looks almost identically to the reply button.  The only difference being
>>
> that it is
>
>>on the right side of the envelope.
>>
>>I would recommend redesigning the reply and reply to all icons so that
they
>>
> are
>
>>more distinguishable.
>>
>>I have posted my redesigned image <a
>>href="http://web.njit.edu/~jxr7434/reply.bmp";>here for reply</a> and <a
>>href="http://web.njit.edu/~jxr7434/replytoall.bmp";>here for reply to
>>
> all</a>
>
>>I hope this helps.
>>
>>John
>>
>>PS. I am not subsribed to this list so if you want to reply to me then
>>
> please reply
>
>>to address@hidden  Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
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--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralf Becker
OUTDOOR UNLIMITED Training GmbH                Telefon 0631 / 31657-0
Leibnizstraße 17                               Telefax 0631 / 31657-26
D-67663 Kaiserslautern            EMail address@hidden


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