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Re: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard


From: Gregory John Casamento
Subject: Re: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:16:04 -0800 (PST)

Jesse,

What you're saying is absolutely correct.   GNUstep needs applications more 
than anything now.   Applications will help us find the holes in gui and fill 
them in and they will inspire developers and users to come to the platform.

In my previous email I had said that, in addition to apps, we also need to 
update GNUstep's look.   To give an example of why this important: I have seen 
people on the web commenting that they thought that GNUstep is dead because it 
still has the NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP look.   Changing the default theme or, at 
least, making it easily replaceable is something that I think is very important 
for GNUstep at the moment (aside from apps).   GNUstep has to be "dressed to 
impress" for lack of a better term.   I have in the past, and recently, 
received calls from companies that want to consider GNUstep to port to various 
platforms, including Windows, and are, in a word, unimpressed by it's look.   
This issue has independently presented itself a number of times with different 
companies, which is more than enough to tell me that it should be addressed 
post-haste.

Another thing is that there is significant demand from a number of companies to 
get the Windows port in better shape.  I know that a lot of us use Linux, UNIX 
and so on and moan about getting GNUstep working well on Windows.  But there is 
a lot of interest there and I would hate to waste it.   While I hate to see 
GNUstep used ONLY as a way to get existing Mac sp
 
Thanks for the nice slogans, but marketing is only a small part of our problems 
at the present time.

One complaint that I hear, suprisingly, is that GNUstep is "hard to install."   
This surprises me since, with GNUstep Startup, I can't think of an easier way 
TO install GNUstep.  Download, unpack, run the script.  It's really that 
simple.   It makes me believe that part of the issue might be the website.   
It's not very clear for a first time user where everything is and how to find 
everything.  

Later, GJC

--
Gregory Casamento -- OLC, Inc 
# GNUstep Chief Maintainer

----- Original Message ----
From: Jesse Ross <address@hidden>
To: Discuss GNUstep <address@hidden>
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 10:43:48 AM
Subject: Re: Objective-C 2.0 and other new features in Leopard


> As for the slogan, I really don't think GNUstep should try to be  
> the "poor man's Mac".  Mac really isn't that great (talking about  
> the Mac itself, not Cocoa), and not a lot of people use it.  In my  
> opinion, GNUstep should try to put a gap between it and Mac while  
> emphasizing the Cocoa/OpenStep similarities and ease of use.   
> Something like "GNUstep - code less" (a pun to the "code  
> differently" idea); "GNUstep - write once deploy everywhere" (this  
> one was proposed over a year ago by someone else as a pun to Java's  
> "write once run everywhere").  I, personally, like the "write once  
> deploy everywhere" one... maybe a hybrid: "code less, deploy  
> everywhere".

Call me cynical, but coming up with a slogan doesn't really seem like  
a solution to the issues that we're having. We need developers, plain  
and simple. In order to get developers, we need positive exposure.  
That's not going to happen by pushing what amounts to marketing- 
speak. Positive exposure is only going to come from building  
powerful, innovative applications that make use of GNUstep. We need,  
to put it bluntly, "killer apps".

If you build something that people want to install, users will show  
up to work around deficiencies: packaging, porting, etc. New users  
will make it easier for themselves, which makes it easier for others,  
which causes an ecosystem to grow around it. I would guess that Ruby  
(and Ruby's marketshare and mindshare) has been improved as a result  
of Rails being the "Next Big Thing". GNUstep will only get into that  
position by having unique, desirable applications built using it.

========================================

GNUstep can be the easiest framework to install, it can be available  
on every platform in the world... until users and developers get  
inspired by seeing the amazing things that can be built with it  
though, none of that matters.

========================================


J.




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