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Re: Questions (was: Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Wind

From: Liam Proven
Subject: Re: Questions (was: Re: A Critique: Getting Started with GNUstep on Windows)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:17:28 +0100

On 28 February 2016 at 19:42, Doc O'Leary
<address@hidden> wrote:
> For your reference, records indicate that
> Liam Proven <address@hidden> wrote:
>> On 26 February 2016 at 01:02, Svetlana A. Tkachenko
>> <address@hidden> wrote:
>> > IMHO the goal of gnustep is being a platform which open-source mac apps
>> > can be ported to so that people don't have to run a proprietary kernel
>> > to use these apps.
>> What? What an incredibly strange, narrow, weird goal.
> There is nothing outlandish about wanting to use GNUstep to run
> existing Cocoa apps.

Quote: *run existing Cocoa apps*

Do you mean to try to run Mac binaries on Linux?

If so, that is the domain of an emulator. One that is trying to
emulate a proprietary platform which is the property of a very large,
wealthy, litigious company. That is unreasonable and unrealistic IMHO.
Outlandish is your term, not mine.

> If it is as narrow a goal as you say, it seems
> like it should be subsumed under whatever larger vision there might
> be for the project.

Why does it need to have a "larger vision"?

> The purpose of this discussion is to see if there *is* a shared aim that
> can be cooperatively achieved.

Is it? Since when? Says who?

> If there isn’t, the GNUstep project
> should explicitly state that it will not welcome code or coders that
> work with Apple platforms.

Why? I see no connection at all.

> And yet you don’t state the reasons for your interest, so you don’t
> really add to the discussion of the bigger picture.

I don't think it's relevant. Anyway, I've discussed it previously. I
am interested in it as a NeXTstep-like desktop environment. Nothing

> No, scratching itches is simply *one* possible starting point for a
> project.

Who said anything about *starting* a project?

That, too, is irrelevant. GNUstep is a mature, long-standing project.
How it started is irrelevant.

>  There is a vast graveyard of open source projects that never
> go anywhere because they never strive to be *more* than ego-driven
> coding.  Some of us still have hopes that GNUstep can escape that kind
> of dead end.

Me too. So? Do you think mission statements will help?

>> That -- that's /insane/.
> That’s the world.  If reality seems insane to you, that’s *your* problem.
> Seek professional medical help.

That is ad-hominem, confrontational, hostile and a non-sequitur.

I am not calling Ms Tkachenko insane, as you assert elsewhere, and I
reject that offensive accusation.

I am saying that to run an entire OS to access a single non-unique app
-- and then not use the actual native OS to run it, but a third-party
reverse-engineered one -- is not a reasonable technical decision.

I see others have quit the list already over your offensive and
hostile posts. I am very close to doing the same.

I suggest that you change your manner, or leave altogether, before you
destroy this part of the community. I would be very sorry to see that

Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
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