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Re: Package building

From: Umberto Cerrato
Subject: Re: Package building
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 12:16:42 +0000


> Il giorno 19 nov 2019, alle ore 12:42, David Chisnall <address@hidden> ha 
> scritto:
> On 19/11/2019 09:40, Johannes Brakensiek wrote:
>>> I understand that the initial idea was to attract more users/developers, 
>>> but… It’s not working.
>> Hm, yes. I think developers don’t need a nice UI at first place (and I think 
>> most of what developers need luckily is already provided by Apple as of 
>> today). But developers need happy users (if you’re not developing only for 
>> yourself) and I think happy users need a stable, solid and consistent UX. 
>> That would be provided by a NextStep based UI guideline. But they also need 
>> a pretty UI (which is not what you’d call that NextStep look nowadays, imho).
> I would add to that: most users will not be using a GNUstep DE.  This was one 
> of the biggest mistakes that we made with Etoile: we did not have an 
> incremental adoption story.
> If you want GNUstep to be attractive to developers, you need to make it easy 
> for them to ship apps that integrate with an existing *NIX DE and with 
> Windows.  One of the biggest things that RedHat did for Linux desktop 
> usability was teach the GTK+ and Qt theme engines to understand a shared 
> format and unify shortcut keys between the two.  After that, it didn't matter 
> (much) if you needed a mix of GNOME and KDE apps, your desktop still felt 
> (approximately) cohesive.
> At the moment, people with one GNUstep app feel that it sticks out and is 
> difficult to use because it doesn't follow the same UI models as the rest of 
> their system.  That means that they then don't want a second one.
> Qt on Mac has the same problem: the controls are all subtly different and it 
> took them years to even have the same shortcuts for navigation in a text 
> field, so everyone who ran a Qt application on Mac hated it and never wanted 
> to use another one.  This didn't matter so much for Qt, because they did have 
> good Windows and X11 support.
> Currently, GNUstep apps look and feel like native apps on MacOS, when you 
> don't use GNUstep.  They look and feel alien everywhere else.
> David

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