[Top][All Lists]

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [PATCH] Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute

From: Daniel Colascione
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Re: About the :distant-foreground face attribute
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 10:47:14 -0800
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0

On 01/14/2014 03:44 AM, Jan D. wrote:
Daniel Colascione skrev 2014-01-14 11:44:
On 01/14/2014 01:34 AM, Jan D. wrote:
Given the use case at hand, we know for a fact that the background is
the region background, so I don't understand why a calculated
is needed.  Just pick one that matches the background.
There might be other use cases where a calculated foreground makes
sense, but my imagination fails me here.

Calculated foreground colors look better: they resemble the font-lock
colors on which they're based.

For the region case, that would imply the possibility of different
foregrounds for marked text, none which is the actual font-lock color.

It *is* the same color in the sense that the code we generate has the
same hue. How on earth is that worse than changing arbitrary font-locked
pieces of text to the system selection foreground color?

Because the system color foreground is (presumably) choosen to look good
together with the system color background.

Yes, and a color we algorithmically generate from a font-lock face will *also* look good against that background color, but 1) will be distinct from other faces replaced for lack of contrast, and 2) will be visually similar to the pre-highlight face. Have you tried the patch?

But that's exactly what
happens when we put gtk_selection_bg_color in a color spec! Why are you
fine with allowing gtk_selection_bg_color as a color (producing a color
that's presumably workable but unknown to a theme writer) but adamantly
opposed to a feature that selects good colors another way?

I'm objecting to having the system default colors replaced with
generated colors for the default case.  What themes other than the
default does is irrelevant.  We are just talking about defaults here.

We already replace the system default colors with colors from font-lock faces.

I've produced working code that allows Emacs to act how you prefer *and*
how I prefer based on user configuration. What is your problem with that

I have no problem with the code, just the defaults.

Have you responded to the numerous objections to
:distant-foreground with anything other than retrenchment?

So far the objections have been mostly opinions.  If there was a
concrete case or a bug it exposes that would be another issue.
The most concrete objection is the case of inheriting faces Yidong
brought up in another mail, which indeed is a real problem.

Problems with usability in UI or API design don't result in clear "bugs" in the same way that logic errors or crashes do. Fixing them relies on judgment, and that relies chiefly on informed opinion. You can't dismiss others' opinions about this feature while not subjecting your own to the same treatment.

And a theme designer can opt not to use the feature or to explicitly
turn it off --- but a theme designer should never have to bother,
because the feature only activates when the contrast is awful, which
happens only when a theme designer screws up or deliberately relies on
system colors.

Why should a theme designer rely on system colors?  That does not sound
like a good theme.  Again, the default should rely on system colors, not
arbitrary themes.

You are not responding to the point I make in the text you quote. I don't know why a theme designer would use system colors either. That's not the point. I'm saying that explicitly-chosen themes should never trigger the code under discussion if they're well-designed.

That is not a use case.  A use case describes what an actual user does
and in what situation automatically calculates colors enters the

This entire thread describes the use case. There are abundant examples.
Your objection here is baseless.

There is a lot of handwaving and describing of mechanisms, but not one
real world example, i.e. what major mode and which font lock faces and
possible other faces are involved, and what does the user do to trigger
the generated color.

Message-ID: <address@hidden>
From: Daniel Colascione <address@hidden>
So to put the discussion in more concrete terms: say I run a stock
GTK3 Emacs on a system with a background color exactly equal to
"Blue1", which is the color we use for font-lock-function-name-face.
I visit xfaces.c, search for "UNSPECIFIEDP", and hit C-a C-SPC C-e.
What colors do you propose we use for the text "UNSPECIFIEDP" on that

:distant-foreground has far too narrow a justification to warrant being
a face property by itself.

Also, just an opinion, not based on some documented design rule in any
Emacs or GNU document.

So only GNU documents count now, not reasoned arguments?

No, but if documentation of some design rule existed it would give
weight to your argument.  But your statement about :distant-foreground
being too narrow is just your personal opinion which you have not
motivated with any reasoned argument, just asserted.

I'm not the only one who's expressed concerns about the design of the feature.

reply via email to

[Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread]