Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways

[Emanuel Berg]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> That's a total of 541 occurrences, just in the files that
>> get dumped with the Emacs binary.
>
> Those use cl-lib during byte-compilation, they don't load
> cl-lib at run time. So this is not what Richard asked
> about, AFAIU.

The "levels" introduced in this discussion are, it would seem

  - files that are used by vanilla Emacs that use cl-lib
  
  - such files that use it at compile time

  - such files that use it a run time

  - such files that are loaded when Emacs is executed with no
    arguments

but - what is the difference? I think it is pretty clear that
cl-lib is used quite broadly, probably because people find
it useful.

So what does it matter if it is "purged" from one or several
of these levels? What gain is there if that is achieved?

>> I fear that that's the way things will stay, because it
>> would be too much work to fix. But more because there are
>> enough contributors who think that cl-lib is just an
>> ordinary part of Emacs to be used freely without restraint.
>> I am not among this group of contributors.
>
> We cannot possibly expect people to contribute code if we
> force them not to use the macros they are used to. If cl-lib
> is not loaded as result, that is good enough for us,
> I think.

Again, what is the harm loading cl-lib?

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