Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways

[Björn Bidar]

Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> writes:

>> There are several good reasons: bloat, unnecessary namespace
>> pollution, etc.
>
> People use it because it is useful: there is `cl-loop',
> `cl-incf', `cl-decf', `cl-pushnew' and many others examples of
> that. Those are not complicated to use, they are all prefixed
> with cl- (as we see) and have good docstrings.
>
>> But all this is not really relevant for the code that you
>> (or any one of us) write for their own personal use, it is
>> only relevant to code contributed to Emacs.
>
> But we don't know what people who are starting to write Elisp
> today for their personal use go on to contribute to Emacs
> packages that make it to the ELPAs, or core Emacs for that
> matter. That whole distinction does not make any sense to me.
> If it is harmful, which it isn't, no one should use it and it
> doesn't matter in what context, be it personal use, ELPA
> packages, core Emacs, compile time, run time - what does
> it matter?

>From my point of view in some way it does sound like that some are
against it for ideological reasons rather than technical.
E.g. those that makes code unreadable or lets rewrite something to drop
the dependency to not load it.
It does sound like a generational conflict, newer developers write code
sometimes different than older ones.
Why not use cl-lib when it makes it easier to achieve what I want easier
and easier to understand than "vanilla" elisp.
But as other said, this wasn't the point of the thread even when some
messages did sound very ideological.

>
> On the other hand if it _is_ useful - and the number of people
> using it and the number of files where it is used, and the
> number of occurrences indicate that it is - there is no reason
> to disencourage people from using it, anywhere.

I think these things are also often a long the lines we don't want you
to use thing XX for a reason, so discourage them from even mentioning
it.
Ideological vs practicism. 
Similar as when people mention other repositories for package.el that
are not from Gnu..