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Re: Support RMS

From: Deb Nicholson
Subject: Re: Support RMS
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 16:00:48 -0400

   It will not matter how many examples I produce, if you consider
   "shouting at people in public" acceptable behavior. There are many
   collections of examples of RMS's unacceptable behavior and if you have
   discounted all of them, then you will discount all of mine too. It
   might be interesting to think about why that is and if there is some
   behavior you would find unacceptable from RMS or a person whose word
   you would believe?
   I can't share the GNU maintainer mailing lists because they are not and
   never have been public.
   I will not waste any more of my time trying to change your mind.

   On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 3:50 PM Jean Louis <> wrote:

     * Deb Nicholson <[1]> [2021-04-14 22:29]:
     > I can't comment on the censored email that no one saw.
     > > It actually serves the opponents of free software quite well to
     > > > someone who pushes people away and facilitates a hostile
     > > > environment, be in charge of the FSF.
     > >
     > > Quite opposite is true, RMS was never facilitating hostile
     > > environment. FSF is not public, but privately founded
     > > founded by RMS, it is equal as his own, and legally he could, if
     > > would want, keep it totally under his control, but he did not,
     it is
     > > gift to mankind.
     > >
     > The FSF is a public charity. It is bound by it's US tax status to
     serve the
     > public good, not a personal goal although of course there is
     > overlap.
     It serves personal goals of RMS and public good, that is why it is
     exempt. Serving public good does not mean that organization is
     it does not belong under legal authority of you, neither me, or
     anybody else to say how it should be governed, as RMS with help of
     whoever attorneys or helpers back then, has already made its
     of Incorporation By-Laws and internal decision documents that are
     representing written instructions of governance.
     You, me, nobody else but voting members, founder, and directors or
     board, have no say there, regardless how much we may like the FSF.
     > As for a hostile environment, I have witnessed repeated hostility
     > (bullying, ad hominem attacks, dog-piling, etc.) on the GNU
     > lists.
     In the context of RMS, as GNU mailing lists are public, can you
     out where did RMS bully, made ad hominem attacks or did dog-piling?
     If you cannot, please retract these generalized and unfounded
     statements, in other words, have some dignity.
     > I have seen RMS shout at people at least a dozen times in public.
     I am sorry for your emotions, to shout means to protest, and that
     as well be, but I never heard him saying some bad words. I have been
     shouting in public and I heard many other people shouting in
     public. I do not see how it is relevant really. Maybe you wanted to
     describe something else which come out now too generalized, please
     to bring specific fact that we may see what you speak about.
     > He inspires others to also interrupt and shout at people in the
     > middle of their public presentations. Those are hostile acts. You
     > may say they are justified, but they are undeniably hostile.
     Please, this generalization is nothing but what it is,
     generalization. To show that you have a good intent, I would ask
     you show something factual, as RMS is public figure.
     By the way RMS is a public speaker, he is free to speak and may
     express himself emotionally, which is what public speakers do. That
     you don't like his opinion, it does not make somebody "bad" as in
     behavior because public speaker speaks louder than you think it
     Many motivational speakers speak much louder and shout more. There
     comedians who speak, shout, yell, turn themselves upside down,
     politicians, preachers from every religion, singers who involve
     themselves in politics, celebrities of all kind. I do not know what
     particular situation you find so? Can you point out to one evidence?
     I know myself when RMS was upset as due to organizer, so what? That
     RMS. Nothing bad was said there that I could hear. You don't like
     somebody's emotion as response to some wrong doing, but you don't
     even to verify what preceded such emotion, and you judge it only by
     emotion. Well I know people are like that, but I am sorry for that
     type of judgment capabilities.
     > That you come here with this perversion of truth without any facts
     > or evidences is disgrace.
     > I'm not "coming here." I've always been here. I'm a former FSF
     staff person
     > who built LibrePlanet into a multi-day event and helped set up the
     > LibrePlanet wiki and this list. You calling me a liar is a perfect
     > example
     That is great, I value your contributions, but I never spoke about
     them, neither you, and it was not subject here.
     Instead of making it emotional again, why you then don't bring up
     FACT that we can isolate and say reasonable, ah yes, you are right.
     Why you continue talking, talking, and not being specific?
     IMHO, that is because you have nothing specific to say. I am still
     asking you to show what you mean.
     All what I know from you is general accusation motion and repeated
     calls for public shaming.
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