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Re: add some rarely used mensural clefs (issue 330120043 by address@hidd

From: pkx166h
Subject: Re: add some rarely used mensural clefs (issue 330120043 by address@hidden)
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:39:34 -0700

On 2017/09/12 10:52:20, wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:address@hidden>
To: <mailto:address@hidden>
Cc: <mailto:address@hidden>;
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: add some rarely used mensural clefs (issue 330120043

>I am updating the doc to include these new clefs (and add all ancient
> clefs to appendix A10 and I noticed some identical outputs for
> 'different' clef names.
> File scm/parser-clef.scm (right):
> scm/parser-clef.scm:96: ("petrucci-g2" . ("clefs.petrucci.g" -2 0))
> Is this correct?
> I know nothing about ancient notation, but it seems that
> is identical "petrucci-g" (below) apart from using 'g2' instead of
> On a similar note I can see that petrucci-f and f4 also are
> (and produce the same output).

I just put a long comment on the issue tracker about this, but got
protection engaged" and it appeared to junk my comments.  So I'll try

James - there's more work to be done here, I'm afraid.  The mensural
table that you've replaced with some examples - most of the examples
actually mensural clefs, they're Gregorian.  In this part of the NR
should _only_ have clefs with "mensural in their name".  Further down
in the
NR there is a section on Gregorian clefs and this should almost
certainly be
updated in the same way as you have done in the mensural clefs
However, it's worth looking at the code that is used to create this
currently - you'll see that the example notes are different from the
you've used in the appendix.  This is because mensural notes would not
used in Gregorian music, so the appendix needs updating to use the
same note
types as the existing table in the Gregorian clef section of the NR.

Hope this is useful and please shout if you want further information

Phil Holmes

Phil, whatever you can offer to help. I know nothing about Ancient music
typesetting and was just basing my additions on what was already in the
NR. I had asked a few years ago for some help with the Ancient music NR
section as it really is looking rather odd and has not had any of the
tidying up work that I did with Graham all those years ago because only
a few people knew enough to know what was wrong or could be improved.

I assumed (incorrectly as it turned out) that the #'mensural value was
generic for all ancient music types and that it was the clef
name/settings that made the output 'Gregorian' vs 'Mensural'. :)
Although there are a lot of diffs, they are mainly just cut/paste edits
so if you can give me some broad education on what values I need to use
for a given set of keys sigs that should be enough than you go through
every single edit line by line.

I ordered the clefs as they appeared in the scm file rather than any
alphabetical or notational style order. I figured it would be easier to
correct someone's work than get a developer to do the edits themselves,
so have at it, let me know what I need to change.

To save you (and anyone else who may want to help) you can download what
the table looks like when it is compiled from here:

This is just that Clef section in the appendix so it is a small PDF.

Otherwise tell me what I need to fix or what is not correct etc.

If you think removing notes would be better (in this appendix) then I
can simply use 'spacers' (or if lilypond-book allows it, nothing at


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