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Re: Key and accidentals in Lilypond

From: s.abeccara
Subject: Re: Key and accidentals in Lilypond
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:36:08 +0100

Dear David,

thank you for your reply, it is helpful and understandable. Your
suggestion to use ABC sounds good. Could you give me an URL to it?

Now I see the point in Lilypond needing explicit alterations on notes.
Some of the replies I got were discouraging for a newcomer in this
field, while being not clear enough. Like, after all, the Lilypond
manual. Which, to me, is uncomplete and lacks good, workable examples
for some basic features of written music (e.g.: how do I write tempo
notation in a piece? How do I change fonts? How do I align lyrics
extending over long groups of notes?), while expanding on very complex
and refined matters. 

The output of Lilypond is a mint, its capabilities are great, but I
think one has to pay a bit too much to get them working. Maybe
something could be made easier, or explained more clearly? Anyway I
think I'm going to try Noteedit or Rosegarden, maybe they could
me some hassle.

Best regards

Silvio a Beccara

| On Sat, 07 Dec 2002 00:15:51 Rune Zedeler wrote:
| > (sorry sending reply to the wrong posting - for some reason I didn't
| > receive the posting from s.abeccara)
| >
| > Simon Bailey wrote:
| > > > | if i'm reading a piece in g major, then i
| > > > | will read any note in the bottom space of the treble staff as an
| > > > | f-sharp, not as an f. so i write "fis" for this note... :o)
| > > >
| > > > i don't agree. it is really not an f sharp, it is a natural f
in the
| > > > key of G, so nothing has to be added to it. if you are singing a
| > > > piece and you aren't told which key it is in (unless you have an
| > > > absolute ear) you will sing "sharp" notes completely
| > > > like natural ones. :o)
| >
| > Oh, so you mean that when playing a piece in g major on the piano the
 "left one of the 3 black keys" are to be called "f" - not "f sharp".
| > This is perhaps common in italy (I don't know) - but it is definitely
| > not common in english or the german group (danish, swedish, norwegian,
| > dutch) of music notation.
| >
| > If fis is really called 'f' when playing in g major, then - by the
| > argument - one should also call fis 'f' when playing in fis major.
| > Actually, when playing a piece in fis major, all the notes would
| > your definition) have the same names as if the piece was in f major.
| > So - using your naming method - how does one tell whether the
piece runs
| > in f major or fis major - both would be called "f major" ???
| >
| > I really don't understand.
| >
| > > > for people really playing and singing music, and not simply
| > > > typesetting it, this is ridiculous.
| >
| > I think that as good as everybody on this list "
eally play and sing
| > music" - and for some reason we don't find it rediculous.
| >
| >
| > -Rune
| I think Laura's approach is the best one.  She is using ABC
| and abc2ly together as an *editing tool*.
| An editing tool which would make everyone able to have his
| own way would simply substitute letters and then transpose.
| For example, a f in key of g would be letter-changed to
| b in the key of c and then transposed to g, giving a fis.
| So you would type your notes, run the editing tool on it
| and then have the proper lilypond notation which almost
| everyone agrees it better to work with, although not
| as quick, potentially anyway, to type out.
| The advantage of the lilypond notation the way it is
| now is partly in the ability to move things about
| within the piece.  It is good if you don't have to
| know what key something is in when reading the
ilypond input code.  This makes it easier to
| make changes in the piece and edit it, especially
| if you haven't looked at it for a while.
| A tool that converted relative pitch to fixed
| would be good too.
| If you only typeset old music you don't have to
| deal with revision so much, so you probably don't
| often make sure that every note beginning a measure
| has an explicit time value, for example.  If
| you do original music you make fewer mistakes
| that way.
| It would be nice if there were a letter-change
| tool and a transposition tool.  \transpose
| is a process rather than an editing tool, which
| is good, but an editing tool would be useful
| too.  Even the ability to edit an octave
| transposition would be very useful.
| Am I being clear here?  An editing tool
| produces valid lilypond *input*, specifically
| a notes block.  DaveA

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