Re: coreutils/man/rm.x - fails to mention POSIX "Refuse to remove path/. and path/.., as well as `.' and `..'

[Dragan Simic]

On 2023-09-25 13:19, Arsen Arsenović wrote:
> Dragan Simic <dsimic@manjaro.org> writes:
>
> > On 2023-09-25 12:58, Rob Landley wrote:
> > > On 9/24/23 01:37, James Feeney via GNU coreutils General Discussion 
> > > wrote:
> > > > Sorry, that was probably a bit harsh.
> > > No, people used to regularly boggle at why info still exists:
> > > https://www.reddit.com/r/gnu/comments/240mle/why_does_gnu_cling_to_info/
> > > https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/77514/what-is-gnu-info-for
> > > https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/159859/why-didnt-gnu-info-succeed-man
> > > https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxadmin/comments/27dxrr/does_anybody_use_gnu_info/
> > > These days, info seems so dead nobody talks about it at all anymore.
>
> Not at all.  It is, unfortunately, far more structured and usable than
> man-pages.  The standalone viewer just happens to suffer from emulating
> Emacs.
>
> Info is not perfect (in fact, I consider the on-disk format rather
> terrible), but it has source material which can do better, which is far
> unlike pages written in roff.  See my other emails which cover how Info
> can be made far more accessible.
>
> > Here's a brief insight into what happened about 15-20 years ago when I 
> > tried
> > using GNU info for the first time...  I failed to see how is it 
> > supposed to be
> > used, and how the actual information is to be reached, after trying 
> > that for
> > ~10 minutes or so, maybe even a few times, IIRC.  Mind you, I _wanted_ 
> > to use
> > info, and I did learn to use vim beforehand, which seems to be a 
> > posterboy for
> > hard to use utilities.
>
> Vi(m) being hard to use is somewhere between an urban legend and an
> inside joke.  It's a ubiquitous tool with a very slight learning curve.

I agree, except for the vim's learning curve being flat or not so steep. 
 Though, you know, many people think of vim as impossible to learn, to 
the point of being unable to exit a vim session they started by 
accident.

> Here's an example session with which you can find, for instance,
> warn_unused_result in the GCC manual:
>
>  $ info gcc
>  i warn_unused_result RET
>
> This is something you couldn't do with a man-page and a pager, as
> searching for 'warn_unused_result' will produce false matches.  This is
> far worse with soemthing like '-g' for obvious reasons.  To reach the 
> -g
> flag in the GCC manual, you can:
>
>  i g RET
>
> which will immediately bring you to it.  In case it does not, you can
> continue the index search using ','.

Wow, this is AMAZINGLY GOOD, thank you very much! :)  It reminds me of 
using vim's built-in help, which is very enjoyable.  Even <Tab> works as 
expected in index searches in GNU info, which is awesome!

> When opening info, you should be able to hit 'h' to get access to a
> walkthrough on how to use info.  Unfortunately, this might be obscured
> on your system, as many distributors package that manual as part of
> Emacs rather than Texinfo (which is, again, due to the standalone 
> viewer
> suffering by trying to emulate Emacs, and so, trying to reuse its
> manual).  My TODO list has filing bugs with a bunch of distributors to
> fix this, but so far I have not tended to that.

Thank you once again, I'll start using info for sure!  I'll also 
recommend it to other people.

> > > Here's a patch I used to apply to binutils 11 years ago:
> > > https://github.com/landley/aboriginal/blob/master/sources/patches/binutils-screwinfo.patch
> > > Rob