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Re: [Denemo-devel] Questions and Comments on Denemo

From: N. Gey
Subject: Re: [Denemo-devel] Questions and Comments on Denemo
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 01:36:12 +0200
User-agent: IceDove (X11/20080304)

Sorry If this is a double posting... I didn't received my own mail in half an our and normally it takes just a few seconds...

Hi Richard,

thanks for your answer. I saw in the list how motivated you are and how
fast your work is, I'm really glad that Denemo is maintained by people
like you.
Your answers are making me glad because It sounds like my ideas are not
that big deal and that they are not absurd.

First to the barlines: I think it would be ok if the barlines are just
like that. Some musical things are not possible then so I have to
develop workarounds. I tried a bit and saw that Denemo is not capable of
having differnt time-signatures in different staves, call it dualtimed
or polyrhythmic or whatever. A feature needed mostly in contemporary
music. If you add a change or the initial signature it changes all
staves. Is this the same core-code like the barlines?

These are mainly the features that let me think about no autobarlines.
If the user is in charge to administrate barlines its more work to do
but more flexible. I don't want these heavy changes to be done, since
there is enough to do, I just want to explain why I think that much
about the barlines.

Second is Alsa and Jack. And I totally forgot to name LASH in my initial
mail. In my opinion these three client are the main difference between
linuxaudio and win/mac.  Maybe It will be a good Idea to ask about a
little help in the LAU/dev list implementing them into Denemo. I think
about a scenario where you (I) can use Ardour for audio and syncing it
through jack-transport with Denemo as midiclient.  Saving the session in
LASH would be a great step, too.

I checked the copy&paste issue. The "set mark" key in my brandnew
cvs-version is Crtl+Space and demark ist crtl+space+shift .  I expected
a traditional "hold shift to mark" or "hold left mouse to mark" like in
any text-enviroment, not a marking mode. Anyway, the mouse is not
working for me in any scenario. I'm not sure If I understood you right
if there is a mousemode.
The task with marking many staffs at once is that it is possible to
copy/cut a complete part (lets say "refrain") and re-use it or just cut
it out and re-arrange your piece.

Now a few single items:
-What about setting slurs and ties with marking notes? mark notes an all
between them will be slured.
-Is it possible to add custom text just here and there in the staff,
free to position and as item to delete, copy and paste?

So far... I'm really looking forward to completly learn denemo and use
it for my daily work. Bye bye, WINE.


Richard Shann schrieb:
I'm sure there are plans to add a ALSA/JACK midi client to denemo. Is there any roadmap or plan?
I haven't any expertise in this area, unfortunately.
-Tempo and Tempochanges
A Tempochange (in metronome scale) and some Terms like "allegro" which resembles some fixed speeds and the possibility to add own tempo-terms like "allegro". Additionally Accelarando and Ritardando, maybe to the
I have it in mind to do this.

next set tempochange in some curve maybe swichtable and possible to add own functions (linear, logarythmic etc. )
I'll bear that in mind when doing the above...
All these should be playbacked in midioutput.
I think that would be ok to do.

Also I miss a durationdisplay that you can see how long your piece is and where you are right now. Could show the bar number and other things, too.
That would be neat & quite easy.
-Delete and Backspace Behaviour
Behaviour of these is just perfect, like in any texteditor. But if there are barlines in between its not possible. In my opinion these should be possible, too. Also the barlines are not deletable. See next point:

Barlines, as I see it, are not the same Items like a note, a rest, clef- or keychange. Is there are reason for this?
Somewhere in the READMEs and DESIGN documents is an ancient comment from
Matthew Hiller that he chose to base Denemo on the measure as a
fundamental entity, saying that he didn't like Rosegarden(?) because of
it not doing that. I don't understand the comment, but Denemo has a core
of display stuff which will fall over I suspect if it doesn't have
manageable measures.
In other words: Is it possible to switch off the auto-barline feature and set them by hand as just another item. Maybe additionally a script like "generate barlines now" which is reversable by crtl+z. By handling barlines as items its also easy to add additional barlines right in the middle of another bar (like a double or part-end bar)
It would be possible to create split and merge functions for inserting
and deleting barlines though - there is a pain barrier to be gone
through because the before mentioned code keeps quite a bit of redundant
information (measure widths etc) which has to be kept in sync. (one
suspects the code was written this way because of the speed of computers
around the turn of the century...)
-Mark, Copy and Paste
There are some menuentries for that, but it doesn't seem to work.
Do you mean that it doesn't work using the mouse in the usual way? It
does copy and paste after some fashion if you mark & select using the
keyboard doesn't it? But I'm not sure what it is trying to do with more
than one staff marked, and, generally, I've not been using it. I did
implement a primitive mouse-marking method (click and drag between
maybe its just vip. Anyway: Copy and Paste should be working. I would suggest a texteditor behaviour: With Shift or pressed mousekey you can mark notes, rests and any items (barlines, too :) ) and then just, copy, cut, delete or over-paste them. Maybe Crtl+Shift or some combo allows it to mark a complete bar like now crtl+left jumps from bar to bar.
??? if you set mark then ctrl-rightarrow it selects the measure
It should be also possible to mark in several staffs at once, so you can c&p whole parts of your piece.
??? again set mark and navigate, though I haven't explored what you can
do with the marked area.
What is the format of the copied items? Will it be possible to paste them into a texteditor
are you thinking of pasting LilyPond here? A single measure of Denemo
will give rise to several bits of LilyPond text at different places in
the LilyPond output.
to have a certain piece read to paste it again in later?

-Shifting Notes
If Notes are marked it could be possible to shift them up and down all together, with some keycombination and the arrow-keys. Rests and other marked items should be ignored in this process.
Yes, I have that in mind.
-Augmentation, Diminuation
If notes are marked it is also possible to augment oder diminuate (double or half the size) all sizable items (notes and rests) easily.
I like the idea of bookmarks. Is it possible to show them as text-item in the (top-)staff and give them a custom name? So you could name them like "Verse 1" or "Refrain" and even print them out.
These would be nice, at the moment they are not actually attached to the
music, though, so it isn't completely trivial.
They are completly missing?
Expression Marks->ToggleBeginSlur/EndSlur
The status bar tells you if you have a begin or end slur on a note -
nothing shows until you have both.
-Additionally Midievents
Set midihandling like dynamics, modulation and all these stuff for enhanced playback possibilitys.

Finally a question: What 2D-lib is used for rendering notes inside Denemo?
I think it is gdk_pixbuf_drawable stuff.

Thank you for your help.

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